Assists

[Snowball]

I find it fascinating that "Crappy Kebe" has clearly made 9 goals for the club in 24 (1) league games (and scored 1)

That is he is a LOT more productive in open play than 5M Hunt


Plus because of his reputation Kebe is having defenders doubling-up, even trebling-up
on him, so making more space for other Reading players.


This list underestimates his value to the side. If he gets much better we won't be able to hang on to him

[Garrincha]

I find it fascinating that "Crappy Kebe" has clearly made 9 goals for the club in 24 (1) league games (and scored 1)

That is he is a LOT more productive in open play than 5M Hunt


Plus because of his reputation Kebe is having defenders doubling-up, even trebling-up
on him, so making more space for other Reading players.


This list underestimates his value to the side. If he gets much better we won't be able to hang on to him

......and completely over inflates SHunts value and true quality

[Ian Royal]

Same for Kebe, although possibly to a lesser extent as he (in my perception at least) seems to get a cross in a much lower percentage of his opportunities than SHunt does.

Absolutely NOT the case

In Twenty-FOUR starts
Kebe has made four goals from crosses, one more from "a dinked cross" (Doobs) = 5
On top of that Kebe had that BRILLIANT run away at Cardiff, then cut the ball back unselfishly for Doyle to side-foot in...
He has also made two goals with headed passes, and one with a pull-back.

That's NINE assists in open play from Kebe, not 8 as the stats say.

If you call the Cardiff one a cross that's a cross-leading-to-a-goal every four games




Hunt has made just 4 crosses for goals 1 clever flick and one break-and-pass SIX assists.
He's also had two of his shots rebound for goals

or one cross-leading-to-a-goal every SEVEN games.


Kebe makes more goals than Hunt from crosses in open play. FACT

Try reading what I said. You can't produce some stupid statistic to prove me wrong, because there's no chance you have access to any data that could prove it. Possibly not even Prozone could, because it's quite subjective.

I said he gets a cross in on fewer of his opportunities to put a cross in, compared to Hunt. Nothing to do with the number of goals that come from a cross.

[2.8 lita injection]

The Kebe haters will be absolutely seething at this news, they are probably trembling with rage at this very moment.

[brendywendy]

of course kebe produces stuff from open play, and so does hunt
im just not sure you can discount huntys deadball stats, just to make it less painful when he goes

[Ian Royal]

of course kebe produces stuff from open play, and so does hunt
im just not sure you can discount huntys deadball stats, just to make it less painful when he goes

I've been asking why assists from set pieces don't count for ages. No one seems inclined to answer though. Might be because it completely invalidates their points.

[Snowball]

of course kebe produces stuff from open play, and so does hunt
im just not sure you can discount huntys deadball stats, just to make it less painful when he goes

I've been asking why assists from set pieces don't count for ages. No one seems inclined to answer though. Might be because it completely invalidates their points.

People are not saying they don't count, but they ARE a false statistic.

If one player gets to take them all his stats are inflated.

The difference with open-play stats are that's balanced and we can see who is the better/best player
at producing goal-scoring chances AND THAT IS KEBE NOT Hunt

You can't compare Hunt's dead-ball assists because Kebe doesn't take corners or free kicks


Incidentally, SHANE LONG in just three starts (and those 20 sub appearances)
as well as scoring 3 goals, has won not two penalties but THREE.

But one doesn't count as an assist cos Hunt missed the pen!


But that, seriously is a great goal + penalties won + assist record for a guy with so few minutes on the field

He has only played one 90 minute game. He scored and saved a point.

He has played in 23 games, starting just three. Overall, for the games he's played he averages 30 minutes on the pitch
so, for all intents and purposes he has played just under eight games total, for 3 goals scored, 3 penalties won and one other assist




08 games 04 assists 3 goals = 1 in 1.14 Long (BEST)
28 games 16 assists 6 goals = 1 in 1.27 Hunt, including all assists and goals
28 games 16 assists 2 goals = 1 in 1.56 Hunt, all assists, but excluding penalties
28 games 07 assists 6 goals = 1 in 2.15 Hunt excluding dead ball strikes but including pens
24 games 09 assists 1 goals = 1 in 2.40 Kebe
28 games 07 assists 2 goals = 1 in 3.10 Hunt excluding all dead ball strikes


This figure = 28 games 07 assists 2 goals = 1 in 3.10 Hunt excluding all dead ball strikes is the real open-play player
(and he's one of my favourites and does more than score or make goals) BUT there will be others who would score
penalties, probably just as effectively (he's had two pens saved this year from 6 taken, but one was retaken, so he's 4 from 5 = 80%)

I'm not saying he's not the best penalty-taker (dunno)
I'm not saying he's not the best free-kick man (dunno)

But I DO know, that because he takes all the penalties and 95% of the corners and 95% of the (crossing) free-kicks his stats are VERY inflated.

[Millsy]

Face it guys you're all pathetic trying to use facts to defend your lovechild Kebe.

We all know he's a lanky giraffe boy and is absolute rubbish. He's to blame for most of the attacks that go wrong and the goals we concede.

We all know that, yet you're looking at cold stats and facts to back up your thinking.

Football isn't about about facts.

If someone's a giraffe they're a giraffe no matter what you say.

[Hoop Blah]

Stats can't show you the true value of any players because football can't be measured by statistics.

Yes it can.

What answers you get out of it depends on what questions you ask of the statistics.

Most people use pretty meaningless stats and utterly rape them of any value.

Most football clubs nowadays spend a lot of money on collection and analysis of detailed statistics of their games.

I hear what your saying, but I still maintain that the examples of those stats you provided do not take into account the intricasies of the game and how each instance recorded is influenced by the bigger picture of the game, or indeed the season.

Stats can tell how someone has performed at a certain task, or how often an event has taken place, but it doesn't give you the subjective view of how those events took place.

I agree that using the stats as a guidline to add a bit of fact to subjective views can be valuable, but taken in isolation, or as the be all and end all, the stats are pretty much useless.

[loyalroyal4life]

The Kebe haters will be absolutely seething at this news, they are probably trembling with rage at this very moment.

Watch kebe have a blinder on tuesday!!

[Snowball]

I hear what your saying, but I still maintain that the examples of those stats you provided do not take into account the intricasies of the game and how each instance recorded is influenced by the bigger picture of the game, or indeed the season. Stats can tell how someone has performed at a certain task, or how often an event has taken place, but it doesn't give you the subjective view of how those events took place.
I agree that using the stats as a guideline to add a bit of fact to subjective views can be valuable, but taken in isolation, or as the be all and end all, the stats are pretty much useless.

But the stats DO blow out of the water a lot of the idiot things said on this list,
dumb, subjective, uniformed opinions posted as virtual facts.

OK, so Stephen is over-rated in terms of assists and goals (fact)
because he takes penalties and most of the corners and free kicks.

But the stats don't show his excellent tackling back, the opponents' shots he's blocked.

But the stats DO show that Kebe gets more crosses in, more assists than Hunt in open play.

The stats don't show that Kebe's speed on the break means opponents have to play deeper his side,
they don't show how doubling up on Kebe means that kebe merely BEING THERE makes space for
other Reading players.

The stats don't show the number of runs and crosses Kebe has made (and there are plenty) where the
chance was made for a team-mate but missed.


The stats DO show that the idiots who say Kebe is rubbbish are wrong
just like the clown who says "Hunt has been hopeless for SEVERAL months"
obviously has a Spec-Savers problem

[Ian Royal]

I hear what your saying, but I still maintain that the examples of those stats you provided do not take into account the intricasies of the game and how each instance recorded is influenced by the bigger picture of the game, or indeed the season. Stats can tell how someone has performed at a certain task, or how often an event has taken place, but it doesn't give you the subjective view of how those events took place.
I agree that using the stats as a guideline to add a bit of fact to subjective views can be valuable, but taken in isolation, or as the be all and end all, the stats are pretty much useless.

But the stats DO blow out of the water a lot of the idiot things said on this list,
dumb, subjective, uniformed opinions posted as virtual facts.

OK, so Stephen is over-rated in terms of assists and goals (fact)
because he takes penalties and most of the corners and free kicks.

But the stats don't show his excellent tackling back, the opponents' shots he's blocked.

But the stats DO show that Kebe gets more crosses in, more assists than Hunt in open play.

The stats don't show that Kebe's speed on the break means opponents have to play deeper his side,
they don't show how doubling up on Kebe means that kebe merely BEING THERE makes space for
other Reading players.

The stats don't show the number of runs and crosses Kebe has made (and there are plenty) where the
chance was made for a team-mate but missed.


The stats DO show that the idiots who say Kebe is rubbbish are wrong
just like the clown who says "Hunt has been hopeless for SEVERAL months"
obviously has a Spec-Savers problem

I'm sorry that isn't a fact, it's an opinion.

Unless you'd like to actually answer the question about how assists from set pieces, or in fact goals from penalties count less than those from open play.

The stats also don't show the number of crosses put in unless I've missed something. They do show he has more assists from open play, but again that isn't the whole picture, as a goal is made by more than the assist in most cases

[Snowball]

The stats also don't show the number of crosses put in unless I've missed something.


True, I didn't specifically count the crosses NOT leading to goals
but if you read the site reports Kebe gets a LOT more crosses for chances than Hunt

Kebe has also produced more crosses creating goals than Hunt (in four less games)


They do show he has more assists from open play, but again that isn't the whole picture, as a goal is made by more than the assist in most cases

Yes and I "gave" Hunty two, where goals were scored off his rebounded shots. That is he FAILS to score and someone knocks in the rebound.
Plus I pointed out he did a great dummy to set up Armstrong for a cross which led to a goal

[Snowball]

The stats also don't show the number of crosses put in unless I've missed something.
They do show he has more assists from open play, but again that isn't the whole
picture, as a goal is made by more than the assist in most cases


I have worked my way through this season's match reports to find EVERY mention
of Hunt & Kebe, positive and negative. It makes interesting reading.


KEBE is MORE involved, makes MORE crosses, has MORE assists, MORE shots and MORE shots on target

in four less games!

19 shots on target 17 off target (24 Games) 1.5 shots per game 53% on target KEBE (all, I think. in open play
15 shots on target 14 off target (28 games) 1.0 shots per game 52% on target HUNT (includes 5 penalties and a free kick!)

They are "mentioned in dispatches" 127 times

053 Positives 002 Negatives KEBE
048 Positives 004 Negatives HUNT
020 Positives, both players involved in the move

Remember Kebe has played 4 less games!

53/24 = 2.21 positives per game Kebe without Hunt
48/28 = 1.71 positives per game Hunt without Kebe

73/24 = 3.00 positives per game Kebe (including Kebe-Hunt both involved)
68/28 = 2.43 positives per game Hunt (including Kebe-Hunt both involved)

Kebe produces 25% more positive comments than Hunt

I can't say this is "perfect" but it's as good and factual as you are going to get.

[Snowball]

53/24 = 2.21 positives per game Kebe without Hunt
48/28 = 1.71 positives per game Hunt without Kebe

73/24 = 3.00 positives per game Kebe (including Kebe-Hunt both involved)
68/28 = 2.43 positives per game Hunt (including Kebe-Hunt both involved)

Kebe produces 25% more positive comments than Hunt

Remember that many of those Hunt positives are for corners which he takes,
for penalties which he takes, for crossing free-kicks which he take

Because he gets to take more corners, free-kicks and penalties he gets an inflated
count of "being involved" in goals (assists) and missed goals (not actually counted)

If Hunt wasn't taking the dead balls, Kebe would look at LEAST twice as effective.


He's a seriously under-rated player and we should get him on the longest-possible contract.

Forget the idiots who remember the times he gets the ball under his feet, or doesn't beat the fifth defender

It is a fact that he has ten assists
It's a fact he has had 1.5 shots per game with 53% on target
It's a fact that he has had 73 positive reports in 24 games (3 per game)

[Sun Tzu]

Because he gets to take more corners, free-kicks and penalties he gets an inflated
count of "being involved" in goals (assists) and missed goals (not actually counted)
-----

Inflated ?
Surely he takes them for a reason (he's good at them).

Are Kebe's stats inflated because he's a faster runner than Hunt so gets into attacking positions more quickly ?

[Snowball]

These are the "combos"

Jimmy Kebe did well to win a corner on the right, and Stephen Hunt floated in a cracking delivery that Ibrahima Sonko bulleted home.

After half an hour a piece of Jimmy Kebe brilliance ignited the game - receiving a Jem Karacan pass in midfield, the Mali international delicately flicked the ball past his marker before speeding into the Palace half.
A perfectly weighted ball released Hunt, who cut inside and shot right footed but Speroni got down well to save.

as a lung-busting Hunt dribble troubled the visiting defence and Doyle nearly slid in Kebe.

Kebe won a corner and Hunt delivered another inswinger from the right. The Palace marking was woeful as the ball drifted across goal to give Doyle a simple tap-in

Kebe again went close inside the box but sub Tim Balkestein got in a cracking block.

Jimmy Kebe bamboozled his marker Fede Bessone to win a corner after 18 minutes, and after Stephen Hunt's initial delivery was cleared for another corner, the Hunt sibling pairing again proved fruitful as the second near post inswinger was met at the near post by Noel Hunt, who thundered his header home.

Kebe makes Hunt goal: quick feet from Armstrong on the edge released Kebe, who surged down the left and cut back a low cross for the oncoming Stephen Hunt, who netted a richly deserved goal with a simple tap-in.

Another Stephen Hunt corner caused havoc in the box as it was hooked back in by Doyle. Jimmy Kebe half-hit a shot, and it bounced up off the upright and fell to Ivar Ingimarsson at the other post, and he cracked in a piledriver but Hennessey was equal to it.

Stephen Hunt took it short to Rosenior, and it was worked square to Brynjar Gunnarsson just outside the box. The Icelander found Kebe with a lovely weighted pass, and the Malian winger, superb on the night, dinked up a cross for Bikey to head home powerfully.

Jem Karacan did superbly to win possession in midfield and release Stephen Hunt down the left. His far post cross reached Jimmy Kebe, who clipped the ball back into the middle where Noel Hunt rose to powerfully head into the top right corner.

However, a remarkably similar chance presented itself to Hunt just minutes later when Kebe's deep cross picked him out, and he made no mistake at the second time of asking with a firm header into the near post past Jensen.

Reading soon took the lead though, and Jimmy Kebe takes a large part of the credit. The Malian went on a cracking run down the right, and was eventually fouled practically on the corner of the box.
Stephen Hunt whipped in a wicked delivery to the near post, and Andre Bikey got a flicked header on it, giving Neil Sullivan no chance as it nestled in.

Just past the half hour Stephen Hunt got a good cross in from the left, and Kebe headed a tough chance not far wide of the target.

First Noel Hunt blazed over from only five yards after Kebe put a defender under pressure, and although the ball came to the Irishman quickly, it was a sitter that he should have taken.

Kebe got in again down the right, and his low cross was almost turned in by Stephen Hunt - only for Doyle to stab home into the corner - game over.

There were good rounds of applause for Kebe, Cisse and Noel Hunt as they went off in the closing stages, and it was a very satisfactory night all round.

First a Stephen Hunt free kick looped up off Macken, and as it dropped out of the sky it hit the post and sliced back into play. Kevin Doyle recycled it and got a cross in that Kebe headed - but again Muller made a good save and tipped onto the woodwork to keep us out.

First Stephen Hunt put in a devilish cross that went all the way to Kebe at the back post. He did enough to get it back across goal, allowing Noel Hunt to steady himself and lash home, giving Loach no chance from close range.

Eight minutes into the half we finally put together a decent move, Kebe breaking from deep in his own half and eventually working it to Stephen Hunt on the left. He whipped in to the near post, and Kevin Doyle maybe could have done better than to head it over.

[chilipepper91]

These are the "combos"

Jimmy Kebe did well to win a corner on the right, and Stephen Hunt floated in a cracking delivery that Ibrahima Sonko bulleted home.

After half an hour a piece of Jimmy Kebe brilliance ignited the game - receiving a Jem Karacan pass in midfield, the Mali international delicately flicked the ball past his marker before speeding into the Palace half.
A perfectly weighted ball released Hunt, who cut inside and shot right footed but Speroni got down well to save.

as a lung-busting Hunt dribble troubled the visiting defence and Doyle nearly slid in Kebe.

Kebe won a corner and Hunt delivered another inswinger from the right. The Palace marking was woeful as the ball drifted across goal to give Doyle a simple tap-in

Kebe again went close inside the box but sub Tim Balkestein got in a cracking block.

Jimmy Kebe bamboozled his marker Fede Bessone to win a corner after 18 minutes, and after Stephen Hunt's initial delivery was cleared for another corner, the Hunt sibling pairing again proved fruitful as the second near post inswinger was met at the near post by Noel Hunt, who thundered his header home.

Kebe makes Hunt goal: quick feet from Armstrong on the edge released Kebe, who surged down the left and cut back a low cross for the oncoming Stephen Hunt, who netted a richly deserved goal with a simple tap-in.

Another Stephen Hunt corner caused havoc in the box as it was hooked back in by Doyle. Jimmy Kebe half-hit a shot, and it bounced up off the upright and fell to Ivar Ingimarsson at the other post, and he cracked in a piledriver but Hennessey was equal to it.

Stephen Hunt took it short to Rosenior, and it was worked square to Brynjar Gunnarsson just outside the box. The Icelander found Kebe with a lovely weighted pass, and the Malian winger, superb on the night, dinked up a cross for Bikey to head home powerfully.

Jem Karacan did superbly to win possession in midfield and release Stephen Hunt down the left. His far post cross reached Jimmy Kebe, who clipped the ball back into the middle where Noel Hunt rose to powerfully head into the top right corner.

However, a remarkably similar chance presented itself to Hunt just minutes later when Kebe's deep cross picked him out, and he made no mistake at the second time of asking with a firm header into the near post past Jensen.

Reading soon took the lead though, and Jimmy Kebe takes a large part of the credit. The Malian went on a cracking run down the right, and was eventually fouled practically on the corner of the box.
Stephen Hunt whipped in a wicked delivery to the near post, and Andre Bikey got a flicked header on it, giving Neil Sullivan no chance as it nestled in.

Just past the half hour Stephen Hunt got a good cross in from the left, and Kebe headed a tough chance not far wide of the target.

First Noel Hunt blazed over from only five yards after Kebe put a defender under pressure, and although the ball came to the Irishman quickly, it was a sitter that he should have taken.

Kebe got in again down the right, and his low cross was almost turned in by Stephen Hunt - only for Doyle to stab home into the corner - game over.

There were good rounds of applause for Kebe, Cisse and Noel Hunt as they went off in the closing stages, and it was a very satisfactory night all round.

First a Stephen Hunt free kick looped up off Macken, and as it dropped out of the sky it hit the post and sliced back into play. Kevin Doyle recycled it and got a cross in that Kebe headed - but again Muller made a good save and tipped onto the woodwork to keep us out.

First Stephen Hunt put in a devilish cross that went all the way to Kebe at the back post. He did enough to get it back across goal, allowing Noel Hunt to steady himself and lash home, giving Loach no chance from close range.

Eight minutes into the half we finally put together a decent move, Kebe breaking from deep in his own half and eventually working it to Stephen Hunt on the left. He whipped in to the near post, and Kevin Doyle maybe could have done better than to head it over.

+1 powerpost

[West Stand Man]

Face it guys you're all pathetic trying to use facts to defend your lovechild Kebe.

We all know he's a lanky giraffe boy and is absolute rubbish. He's to blame for most of the attacks that go wrong and the goals we concede.

We all know that, yet you're looking at cold stats and facts to back up your thinking.

Football isn't about about facts.

If someone's a giraffe they're a giraffe no matter what you say.

..and you, sir, are also a complete tit.

[Hoop Blah]

So all these 'stats' are only taken from match reports?

Whats a match report? An indivuals subjective representation of events as they've seen them.

I'm sure most of what you've pulled together is pretty accurate, but if it's still based on the official match report then the source is a little unreliable, IMO.