Harte is Rubbish, not good enough for the Championship

[Hoop Blah]

I've seen the majority of games this season thanks.

You on the other hand, appear to be blind.

To be fair though IR, you don't see a lot of things on TV coverage.

I know you'll say you see a lot of things better on there as well, but defending is 80% about being in the right place at the right time and snuffing out issues before they happen.

Harte is sluggish, does get caught out of position at times and isn't the best left back when it comes to defending (he is OUR best left back at defending though) because of those weaknesses. When he first signed he played pretty well, both defending and going forward. As he settled down his standards slipped at both ends too.

After getting dropped (a little late in my opinion, but then again he is, as I've said, our best left back) and then coming back into the side he's turned in some better performances and his deadball delivery has got back to where you'd hope it would be. There's no doubting his threat from shooting positions though. In this side his worth as an attacking threat is greater than the gap between him and the next best left back in the squad.

The funny thing is that I don't think there's been an outstanding left back in the Championship this season. Naylor at Cardiff is probably the best one in the league, but he's missed a lot due to injury. Similar story for Drury at Norwich who's been around for a while and is very competent but has missed a couple of months I think. Taylor at 'Boro always looked a promising talent but they've been pretty woeful and he's not played that many games either. Forest have had a number of leftlbacks and I couldn't even tell you who plays there for Leeds (Having said that I just looked and had forgotten all about George McCartney who again has only played 30 games).


That leaves Hill and Harte out of the top teams.

For my money the best left back performance I've seen this season was from the lad Peters (??) of Ipswich. He snuffed Kebe out 100% at Madejski.

[BR2]

In response to Ian Royal's earlier post you are very perceptive and half-right because I am almost blind in my left eye.
That may explain the blind spot that I have about our left-back although I didn't have that blind spot when Armstrong or Bertrand were playing.

[ZacNaloen]

How often does Harte actually get beaten?

It may look like sometimes he is struggling, but often his positioning is good enough that even if a Defender gets past him in a wide position he just slots in field and one of the other defenders comes out to meet the winger (that's if they get past him at all, is it me or do most managers look at Hartes pace and think they should just try and knock the ball over him for the winger to run past him, when his heading is probably one of his strongest traits? They should be trying to play it around him).

The fact we don't concede all that many seems to suggest that whatever Hartes weaknesses are with pace, defensively as a unit the combination works.

[Snowball]

No, NOT "nuff said". How an EX-Pro speaks on sanitised TV, sometimes scripted, aiming at the lowest common denominator, is not remotely how he might have spoken when playing, or in private.

Any evidence or experience to back that up?

I've known a few pros and managers in the days.

[Hoop Blah]

How often does Harte actually get beaten?

It may look like sometimes he is struggling, but often his positioning is good enough that even if a Defender gets past him in a wide position he just slots in field and one of the other defenders comes out to meet the winger (that's if they get past him at all, is it me or do most managers look at Hartes pace and think they should just try and knock the ball over him for the winger to run past him, when his heading is probably one of his strongest traits? They should be trying to play it around him).

The fact we don't concede all that many seems to suggest that whatever Hartes weaknesses are with pace, defensively as a unit the combination works.

I think the goals conceded is looking very healthy. We've conceded a lot of chances at times and I think Harte's lack of pace (and that of his team mates) has contributed to that by pulling us all out of position a bit.

I don't think you should overlook the part McAnuff plays in defending our left hand side or how much of an impact having two defensively disciplined midfielders helps out too. Karacan covers so much ground plugging gaps and cutting out supply it makes the back four well covered for the most part.

As a team we cover well for each other, and that's a great aspect of what McDermott has built. That allows us to have players like Harte in the side who might not be the best equipped to play fullback at this level (he's by no means a dud, but defensively he's not as good as Bertrand, Armstrong or Shorey). It's a good piece of management by McDermott.

[Royal With Cheese]

No, NOT "nuff said". How an EX-Pro speaks on sanitised TV, sometimes scripted, aiming at the lowest common denominator, is not remotely how he might have spoken when playing, or in private.

Any evidence or experience to back that up?

I've known a few pros and managers in the days.

Are you John Motson?

[Svlad Cjelli]

No, NOT "nuff said". How an EX-Pro speaks on sanitised TV, sometimes scripted, aiming at the lowest common denominator, is not remotely how he might have spoken when playing, or in private.

Any evidence or experience to back that up?

I've known a few pros and managers in the days.

Have things not changed over recent years?

[facaldaqui]

For my money the best left back performance I've seen this season was from the lad Peters (??) of Ipswich. He snuffed Kebe out 100% at Madejski.

I agree with that. It intrigues me that he can't get in the Ipswich team recently, so I wonder how much he can be bought for (Reading need to replace Armstrong: we can't go on with just one player for that position, Cummings being basically a right back). Ipswich are very unperceptive about their left backs--Harding proved excellent for us, I wish we'd signed him.

[Hoop Blah]

I see that Harding has also got in the League 1 team this year.

I think the problem with Peters is that he's also normally a right back, if not a winger. I don't think Jewell's played him much by the looks of things.

[dogzbollox]

In answer to all doubts about Ian Harte - he has just been picked for the PFA team of the season

[Libertine]

I want to go on record saying I was wrong. I didn't think Ian had what it took to do the job at this level when we first signed him. I was very wrong in that assessment, as were all the doubters.

[Snowball]

I want to go on record saying I was wrong. I didn't think Ian had what it took to do the job at this level when we first signed him. I was very wrong in that assessment, as were all the doubters.

Good on you, Lib.

[Z175]

I want to go on record saying I was wrong. I didn't think Ian had what it took to do the job at this level when we first signed him. I was very wrong in that assessment, as were all the doubters.

I think he just wasn't trying. He doesn't come across as this sort of player though, but after playing in Spain for the lifestyle and then taking it easy for Carlisle at centre back, I think he'd forgotten how to give 110%. I think fans were too quick to jump on him as his passing and attacking play has been good all season and as a team we are used to having a threat from left back. But defensively he was caught out of position and beaten gfor pace too easily, so don't blame yourself for not seeing his renaissance coming.

Brian has a serious strength as some sort of mental guru and Harte has now emerged looking very alert and his defensive positioning has superbly nulified his lack of pace. That said Jobi McAnuff deserves a massive pat on the back for his defending against Leicester. He got back every time to help Harte out.

[Snowball]

People keep saying that but we are not exactly conceding shedloads of goals down the left.

How come no right winger has had the joy Kebe has had (against many different left backs)?

[Z175]

While I agree that he has improved massively, I don't fully agree with your take on his positioning.
He seems to "take out distance", and "cheat" a bit with regards to his positioning, due to his lack of pace.
I notice that he likes to give a lot of space to the opponent. This means he is not tightly marking the opponent.
For example he will keep narrow rather than staying out wide. He will keep back and not close to his man.
This means that if he is faced with someone genuinely pacey and tricky, that opponent will be left with acres of space, which could prove to be a liability for us.
So if there is an opponent player who can take advantage of this lack of man marking, and space left to him, we would be in trouble.

I see your point, but he was getting tight earlier in the season but getting either skinned or beaten for pace and we were looking vunerable down that left side. Now hes clearly "cheating" by getting deeper but this is clearly on the provisio McAnuff will get use his pace to get back and at the man leaving Harte with the option of either mopping up or being back enough to make the challenge if McAnuff doesn't make it. So far it seems to be working superbly! For sure we would rather have jobi in the final third but as a combination both are now giving us plenty defensively and offensively.

[Snowball]

When much of the debate around Harte has centred on whether he is a good enough defender, outside of the goals he scores, what is the use of referencing Actim stats, which have been shown to favour goalscorers?


How is Long doing, Actim-wise?

Dunno, could someone look it up for me?

[Snowball]

Snowball, there's no 'covering my ass'. If you took five seconds to take your head out of your stats you'd know that the Actim index has long been criticised firstly for appearing to favour attacking players, and secondly for failing to reveal methodology in the face of that criticism.

Now are you going to prove that the Actim stats are reliable?

You covered the donkey. END

No, I didn't.

You're beginning to quite obviously enjoy posting crap just for the responses it gets.

Where is Long in the Actim index?

As you've no reason to question its validity, you won't mind my conclusion that as Long doesn't even feature, then he is quite obviously not pulling his weight, in terms of either his scoring, or the all-round game you believe to be equally represented by Actim.

Sorry, could you run that past me again?