Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Weymouth Royal » 21 Mar 2022 14:28

YorkshireRoyal99 Makes me wonder who the next club will be to fall into Derby's situation. Huddersfield I know have been struggling for cash since their owner put some of his businesses into administration although I don't know if they are in the process of a takeover or not.


There's 2-3 clubs sweating right now, and Bristol City are one.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Mar 2022 14:42

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YorkshireRoyal99 Makes me wonder who the next club will be to fall into Derby's situation. Huddersfield I know have been struggling for cash since their owner put some of his businesses into administration although I don't know if they are in the process of a takeover or not.


There's 2-3 clubs sweating right now, and Bristol City are one.


What ever happened to the other half a dozen or so clubs that were subject to soft transfer embargo's at the back end of last season? I remember Blackburn and Luton being 2 of them, but there were about 8, ourselves being one of them?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Weymouth Royal » 21 Mar 2022 20:00

YorkshireRoyal99
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YorkshireRoyal99 Makes me wonder who the next club will be to fall into Derby's situation. Huddersfield I know have been struggling for cash since their owner put some of his businesses into administration although I don't know if they are in the process of a takeover or not.


There's 2-3 clubs sweating right now, and Bristol City are one.


What ever happened to the other half a dozen or so clubs that were subject to soft transfer embargo's at the back end of last season? I remember Blackburn and Luton being 2 of them, but there were about 8, ourselves being one of them?


I would imagine they're all bricking it heading into next season as well.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Mar 2022 09:13

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There's 2-3 clubs sweating right now, and Bristol City are one.


What ever happened to the other half a dozen or so clubs that were subject to soft transfer embargo's at the back end of last season? I remember Blackburn and Luton being 2 of them, but there were about 8, ourselves being one of them?


I would imagine they're all bricking it heading into next season as well.


That all just seemed to fall away though. I remember a couple being down to administrative practices that ended up being resolved, can't remember who specifically, but there just seemed to be a fair amount of clubs who were under scrutiny one way or another and, other than ourselves and Derby, the rest all just seemed to die down. Could be justified, it just seems odd.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by paultheroyal » 22 Mar 2022 09:28

Hasnt Covid saved alot of them?

One to watch would be Bournemouth but they look nailed on for automatic now. If they stayed down they would be in real trouble with parachute payments at an end and £100k a week players on their books.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Weymouth Royal » 22 Mar 2022 12:44

paultheroyal Hasnt Covid saved alot of them?

One to watch would be Bournemouth but they look nailed on for automatic now. If they stayed down they would be in real trouble with parachute payments at an end and £100k a week players on their books.


What Bournemouth players are on £100k a week?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by South Coast Royal » 22 Mar 2022 13:23

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paultheroyal Hasnt Covid saved alot of them?

One to watch would be Bournemouth but they look nailed on for automatic now. If they stayed down they would be in real trouble with parachute payments at an end and £100k a week players on their books.


What Bournemouth players are on £100k a week?


I doubt that there are any.
I would guess that the highest paid are probably, Billing, Lerma and Solanke.
Also perhaps Christie who was snapped up from Celtic when expected to go to a Premier League club.

There has always been the feeling here that selling the idea of moving to Bournemouth for a player with a young family is easy , especially if compared to playing in most of the big cities.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Weymouth Royal » 22 Mar 2022 16:04

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paultheroyal Hasnt Covid saved alot of them?

One to watch would be Bournemouth but they look nailed on for automatic now. If they stayed down they would be in real trouble with parachute payments at an end and £100k a week players on their books.


What Bournemouth players are on £100k a week?


I doubt that there are any.
I would guess that the highest paid are probably, Billing, Lerma and Solanke.
Also perhaps Christie who was snapped up from Celtic when expected to go to a Premier League club.

There has always been the feeling here that selling the idea of moving to Bournemouth for a player with a young family is easy , especially if compared to playing in most of the big cities.


Agreed. Their highest paid are unlikely to be on more than £60k a week, and there wouldn't be many. The papers would be all over any Championship club paying top 6 wages at this level.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by South Coast Royal » 22 Mar 2022 16:09

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What Bournemouth players are on £100k a week?


I doubt that there are any.
I would guess that the highest paid are probably, Billing, Lerma and Solanke.
Also perhaps Christie who was snapped up from Celtic when expected to go to a Premier League club.

There has always been the feeling here that selling the idea of moving to Bournemouth for a player with a young family is easy , especially if compared to playing in most of the big cities.


Agreed. Their highest paid are unlikely to be on more than £60k a week, and there wouldn't be many. The papers would be all over any Championship club paying top 6 wages at this level.


It isn't going to happen because none of the chasing pack will catch Bournemouth IMHO but I would have loved it if they missed out on promotion as they would , as previous offenders, have been deducted loads of points for next season and move some of their many expensive players on..


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 22 Mar 2022 16:53

Lerma is apparently their highest paid player on £40k a week. Their wage bill is apparently £23m a year. They shifted most of their highest earners over the course of last season.

This is usually as reliable a source as any.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/afc-bournemouth/

Having said that, Mepham, Solanke and Billing were listed as having higher wages last season (about £10k/w higher in each case).

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by RG30 » 23 Mar 2022 11:29

Stoke City’s owners, bet365 Group, have underlined their continuing long-term commitment to the Club and its funding by reducing the debts of the Club’s holding company by £160million.

The Club’s owners have converted £40million of shareholder loans into equity in Stoke City Holdings Limited and have also waived £120million of shareholder loans.

Joint Chairman John Coates said: “Converting £40m of loans into equity and waiving £120m of loans greatly strengthens the Club’s balance sheet and also provides more long-term stability for the Club.

“On the field, the last four or five years have not proved to be as successful as any of us would have hoped. However, our commitment to the Club, its future success, financial sustainability and place at the heart of our local community remains as strong and focussed as ever.”

The debt reduction follows the Club’s recent announcement that a £20m five-year redevelopment programme at the bet365 Stadium and Clayton Wood training ground is to get underway this summer.

More than £4million will be invested in facilities ahead of the 2022/23 season, including the installation of 8,400 seats.

Other work to be carried out this summer includes the complete transformation of Delilah’s Bar into a contemporary sports bar, installation of new toilet facilities in the Tile Mountain and South Stands, refurbishment of the Players’ and Stanley Matthews Lounges and installation of a new synthetic, all-weather pitch at Clayton Wood to be used by first-team, Academy line-ups and women’s side.


https://www.stokecityfc.com/news/2022/march/23/club-statement/

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Silver Fox » 23 Mar 2022 14:18


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Mar 2022 19:56

From Despair To Where? Lerma is apparently their highest paid player on £40k a week. Their wage bill is apparently £23m a year. They shifted most of their highest earners over the course of last season.

This is usually as reliable a source as any.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/afc-bournemouth/

Having said that, Mepham, Solanke and Billing were listed as having higher wages last season (about £10k/w higher in each case).

Isn't £23m about 2/3rds of our wage bill last season? :lol:


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 23 Mar 2022 20:46

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From Despair To Where? Lerma is apparently their highest paid player on £40k a week. Their wage bill is apparently £23m a year. They shifted most of their highest earners over the course of last season.

This is usually as reliable a source as any.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/afc-bournemouth/

Having said that, Mepham, Solanke and Billing were listed as having higher wages last season (about £10k/w higher in each case).

Isn't £23m about 2/3rds of our wage bill last season? :lol:


It is which is why I'm not 100% convinced the figures are right but that site usually posts up numbers that are in the general ballpark. They did shift a number of big earners (Ake was on about £80,000/wk and Begovic was on £60k but he left last summer) and of course its entirely possible that they wrote incremental wage cuts into contracts.

In comparison, here's ours.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/reading/

Clearly Drinkwater's and Rahman's wages arent being paid by us but this doesn't seem to be wildly out. I suspect its £22m with us paying peanuts for the loanees. I'm gobsmacked that Boyce-Clarke is allegedly earning 4 times more than Tom Holmes.

According to those figures, we've still got the 4th highest wagebill in the league after Fulham, Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Most of the league are between £7-15m a year so assuming we shift the high earners, there's no reason why, we can't still have a competative squad. Liam Moore gets paid more than the whole Accrington Stanley squad.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Mar 2022 07:29

From Despair To Where?
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From Despair To Where? Lerma is apparently their highest paid player on £40k a week. Their wage bill is apparently £23m a year. They shifted most of their highest earners over the course of last season.

This is usually as reliable a source as any.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/afc-bournemouth/

Having said that, Mepham, Solanke and Billing were listed as having higher wages last season (about £10k/w higher in each case).

Isn't £23m about 2/3rds of our wage bill last season? :lol:


It is which is why I'm not 100% convinced the figures are right but that site usually posts up numbers that are in the general ballpark. They did shift a number of big earners (Ake was on about £80,000/wk and Begovic was on £60k but he left last summer) and of course its entirely possible that they wrote incremental wage cuts into contracts.

In comparison, here's ours.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/reading/

Clearly Drinkwater's and Rahman's wages arent being paid by us but this doesn't seem to be wildly out. I suspect its £22m with us paying peanuts for the loanees. I'm gobsmacked that Boyce-Clarke is allegedly earning 4 times more than Tom Holmes.

According to those figures, we've still got the 4th highest wagebill in the league after Fulham, Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Most of the league are between £7-15m a year so assuming we shift the high earners, there's no reason why, we can't still have a competative squad. Liam Moore gets paid more than the whole Accrington Stanley squad.

And people were saying £16m required by the FL would make us the lowest paying team in the league next season. There's so much bullshit out there.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 24 Mar 2022 07:51

As I keep saying, you can't 100% trust online sources but given what is known, that site seems to work within a reasonable margin for error and I'm comfortable using it for ballpark figures.

If you scout around all the leagues, it makes for interesting reading. The headline figures may not be 100% accurate but the differentials between clubs seem reasonable.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 24 Mar 2022 08:05

Clubs in European competition are set to face restrictions on spending on wages and transfers for the first time with points deductions — and possible exclusion — for breaches under new Uefa rules.

The financial sustainability rules are to replace Uefa’s financial fair play rules and if agreed will come into force from 2023. The European Club Association (ECA) board is due to consider Uefa’s plan at a meeting on Thursday after the governing body was forced to change its previous proposals for a luxury tax.

Under the new squad cost rule, clubs will be limited to spending 70 per cent of their revenue in a calendar year on player wages, transfers and agents fees – though any income from selling players will allow clubs to spend more.

Breaches will lead to fines and points deductions, something that will be significant when Uefa’s new “Swiss model” Champions League format begins in 2024 where 36 clubs will be in a single league table. The severity of the sanction will depend on the size of the breach. Repeat offences could lead to relegation to the Europa League and even exclusion from European competition.

Uefa accepts that many clubs would struggle to hit the 70 per cent mark at the moment so has agreed to make it 90 per cent for 2023, 80 per cent for 2024 and then 70 per cent after that. European football’s leaders believe the spending restrictions will be less easy for clubs to bypass as any attempt to disguise expenditure on player wages will risk breaching national tax laws.

The new rules will also result in clubs being allowed more flexibility around annual losses. Under the FFP rules, clubs were only permitted to lose €30 million (about £25 million) over three years – this will be increased to €60 million if the club owners cover the losses by cash injections. However, money spent on youth football, building new facilities and women’s football will no longer be able to be written off when the losses are calculated.

A constant criticism of FFP has been that it maintains the elite clubs’ position because owners of smaller clubs who are trying to get on to the same level are not allowed to put in more money to cover losses. The losses incurred during the Covid pandemic also meant that the FFP rules were no longer sustainable.

Increasing the permitted losses answers some of that criticism, but with new restrictions on spending to prevent the richest clubs being totally dominant.

The new squad cost control proposal replaces the luxury tax plan — similar to one that operates in Major League Baseball in the US — that was put to clubs and leagues last year. Under that idea any clubs breaching the 70 per cent limit would pay the same amount as any overspend into a pot to be redistributed to other teams in the Champions League.

The criticism of that plan was that it would still allow clubs owned by states or hugely wealthy individuals to spend heavily because they would not care about paying the luxury tax. There is confidence inside Uefa that the new financial sustainability rules will win the backing of the ECA and the European Leagues and if so they will go for approval at Uefa’s next executive committee meeting on April 7.

The idea of a fixed salary cap, such as €500 million a year, had been floated but would almost certainly have failed to win EU approval.

Intriguingly, the idea of restricting spending on salaries and transfers was part of the breakaway European Super League’s blueprint. Its plan was for member clubs to be limited to spending only 55 per cent of turnover on salaries and transfers combined.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sanguine » 24 Mar 2022 08:52

Great, but doesn't the issue remain how 'revenues' are determined, i.e. what PSG and City can categorise as 'revenues'.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 24 Mar 2022 09:37

From Despair To Where?
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From Despair To Where? Lerma is apparently their highest paid player on £40k a week. Their wage bill is apparently £23m a year. They shifted most of their highest earners over the course of last season.

This is usually as reliable a source as any.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/afc-bournemouth/

Having said that, Mepham, Solanke and Billing were listed as having higher wages last season (about £10k/w higher in each case).

Isn't £23m about 2/3rds of our wage bill last season? :lol:


It is which is why I'm not 100% convinced the figures are right but that site usually posts up numbers that are in the general ballpark. They did shift a number of big earners (Ake was on about £80,000/wk and Begovic was on £60k but he left last summer) and of course its entirely possible that they wrote incremental wage cuts into contracts.

In comparison, here's ours.

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/reading/

Clearly Drinkwater's and Rahman's wages arent being paid by us but this doesn't seem to be wildly out. I suspect its £22m with us paying peanuts for the loanees. I'm gobsmacked that Boyce-Clarke is allegedly earning 4 times more than Tom Holmes.

According to those figures, we've still got the 4th highest wagebill in the league after Fulham, Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Most of the league are between £7-15m a year so assuming we shift the high earners, there's no reason why, we can't still have a competative squad. Liam Moore gets paid more than the whole Accrington Stanley squad.


I could potentially believe Boyce-Clarke earning 4 times that of Holmes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Holmes has signed any new deal recently whereas Boyce-Clarke has and, with the reported interest from some of Europe's top clubs previously, I can imagine we've given him a lucrative deal for a youngster to tie him down with the club so we don't lose arguably one of the most sought after young goalkeepers in this country.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 24 Mar 2022 09:39

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Clubs in European competition are set to face restrictions on spending on wages and transfers for the first time with points deductions — and possible exclusion — for breaches under new Uefa rules.

The financial sustainability rules are to replace Uefa’s financial fair play rules and if agreed will come into force from 2023. The European Club Association (ECA) board is due to consider Uefa’s plan at a meeting on Thursday after the governing body was forced to change its previous proposals for a luxury tax.

Under the new squad cost rule, clubs will be limited to spending 70 per cent of their revenue in a calendar year on player wages, transfers and agents fees – though any income from selling players will allow clubs to spend more.

Breaches will lead to fines and points deductions, something that will be significant when Uefa’s new “Swiss model” Champions League format begins in 2024 where 36 clubs will be in a single league table. The severity of the sanction will depend on the size of the breach. Repeat offences could lead to relegation to the Europa League and even exclusion from European competition.

Uefa accepts that many clubs would struggle to hit the 70 per cent mark at the moment so has agreed to make it 90 per cent for 2023, 80 per cent for 2024 and then 70 per cent after that. European football’s leaders believe the spending restrictions will be less easy for clubs to bypass as any attempt to disguise expenditure on player wages will risk breaching national tax laws.

The new rules will also result in clubs being allowed more flexibility around annual losses. Under the FFP rules, clubs were only permitted to lose €30 million (about £25 million) over three years – this will be increased to €60 million if the club owners cover the losses by cash injections. However, money spent on youth football, building new facilities and women’s football will no longer be able to be written off when the losses are calculated.

A constant criticism of FFP has been that it maintains the elite clubs’ position because owners of smaller clubs who are trying to get on to the same level are not allowed to put in more money to cover losses. The losses incurred during the Covid pandemic also meant that the FFP rules were no longer sustainable.

Increasing the permitted losses answers some of that criticism, but with new restrictions on spending to prevent the richest clubs being totally dominant.

The new squad cost control proposal replaces the luxury tax plan — similar to one that operates in Major League Baseball in the US — that was put to clubs and leagues last year. Under that idea any clubs breaching the 70 per cent limit would pay the same amount as any overspend into a pot to be redistributed to other teams in the Champions League.

The criticism of that plan was that it would still allow clubs owned by states or hugely wealthy individuals to spend heavily because they would not care about paying the luxury tax. There is confidence inside Uefa that the new financial sustainability rules will win the backing of the ECA and the European Leagues and if so they will go for approval at Uefa’s next executive committee meeting on April 7.

The idea of a fixed salary cap, such as €500 million a year, had been floated but would almost certainly have failed to win EU approval.

Intriguingly, the idea of restricting spending on salaries and transfers was part of the breakaway European Super League’s blueprint. Its plan was for member clubs to be limited to spending only 55 per cent of turnover on salaries and transfers combined.


Going to be a fair shift then in the Championship given a fair amount of clubs in the league have a wages to turnover % of in excess of 100%.

I suppose we can be thankful that a lot of players are out of contract over the last 2/3 years that have earned so much money, them being Baldock, Aluko, Swift, Moore (next season) etc.

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