does STAR do a good enough job for reading fans?

[Svlad Cjelli]

But how do they identify what are red herrings (or wind-ups) from genuine issues?

I would hope Svlad, that they would use their common sense.

Having tried to do that in the past, it's simply not that easy. There are a high-proportion of WUMs and attention-seekers on Hobnob, and investigating everything that's posted on here, including having to make a judgement on whether it's real or not, is just not possible. It also leaves them open to criticism if that judgement turns out to be wrong.

I don't think it;s at all unreasonable to ask people to contact an organisation directly if they want that organisation to take up something on their behalf. If that's too much effort for you, why should they invest any time in it?

[roadrunner]

Completely agree with Dirk. If you want to raise something there's already a very good process in place to do so. Use it!

[Red]

I would hope Svlad, that they would use their common sense.

Having tried to do that in the past, it's simply not that easy.

[Red]

But how do they identify what are red herrings (or wind-ups) from genuine issues?

I would hope Svlad, that they would use their common sense.

Having tried to do that in the past, it's simply not that easy. There are a high-proportion of WUMs and attention-seekers on Hobnob, and investigating everything that's posted on here, including having to make a judgement on whether it's real or not, is just not possible. It also leaves them open to criticism if that judgement turns out to be wrong.

I don't think it;s at all unreasonable to ask people to contact an organisation directly if they want that organisation to take up something on their behalf. If that's too much effort for you, why should they invest any time in it?

Just to be clear then - you don't think there's any value in discussing STAR policies on an open forum like this?

Is it time to remove their forum then? Why exactly was that set up anyway?

[Svlad Cjelli]

Having tried to do that in the past, it's simply not that easy. There are a high-proportion of WUMs and attention-seekers on Hobnob, and investigating everything that's posted on here, including having to make a judgement on whether it's real or not, is just not possible. It also leaves them open to criticism if that judgement turns out to be wrong.

I don't think it;s at all unreasonable to ask people to contact an organisation directly if they want that organisation to take up something on their behalf. If that's too much effort for you, why should they invest any time in it?

Just to be clear then - you don't think there's any value in discussing STAR policies on an open forum like this?

Is it time to remove their forum then? Why exactly was that set up anyway?

That's a quite obtuse leap of logic you've made there - where did I ever say I had a problem with discussing STAR or it's policies on here? That's fine and healthy and the more transparent a supporters' organisation is the better for everyone. And surely that's what the STAR forum was set up for?

What we're talking about though, is whether STAR should spend time and effort investigating supporter complaints/issues just on the basis of them being posted (anonymously) on an internet message board. I don't think it's unreasonable for STAR to require a greater level of engagement from the complaining supporter before they engage in any investigations.

PS - not sure what was so funny about the previous post.

[Red]

So it's fine to have a forum as long as it remains just a talking shop.

Fair play, that's what it was set up for I guess. I still think it's a wasted opportunity but I've said my piece.

The LOL was the implication that you struggle to use common sense, just being silly don't read too much into it.

[Svlad Cjelli]

So it's fine to have a forum as long as it remains just a talking shop.

Fair play, that's what it was set up for I guess. I still think it's a wasted opportunity but I've said my piece.

The LOL was the implication that you struggle to use common sense, just being silly don't read too much into it.

As I see it, the Forum is about STAR, and how they operate. And that would put it in line with the reast of HNA, which is just a talking shop.

But there's a clear distinction (in my mind at least) between comments/queries about STAR, and also a way for STAR to communic8 to Reading supporters, than a mechanism for supporters to raise issues/complaints with STAR.

As to the forum, it is less effective and much less used to be - I assume that this is linked to changes in STAR personnel in the past year.

[Compo's Hat]

To answer your point about why post on here instead of send an email starliason - surely an open forum where others can share their experiences has it's benefits?

There might be an issue that someone else brings up that you can add comment to, but which you wouldn't have bothered to raise yourself.

Also answering posts on here will be read by a greater audience than replying to emails, many of which I'm guessing make similar points. It could save you time. Noone is suggesting you need to reply to every "red" herring (won't take that personally )

But how do they identify what are red herrings (or wind-ups) from genuine issues?

Someone sending an email in their own name has far more credibility in what they're saying than someone on a message board hiding behind an alias.

Ask Martin Salter, he'll know!

[floyd__streete]

I remember Salter standing up at a STAR AGM to ber8 Reading fans for racially abusing Plymouth's Rufus Brevett. Of course, they hadn't been making monkey noises at all; they had in fact been barking at him in the traditional 'Rufus is a dogs name' style

[Hoop Blah]

As much as I wouldn't expect STAR to aimlessly follow up every mind numbing complaint that finds its way into NHA I do think it's extremely worthwhile for them (as an organisation) to have a higher profile here and to communicate more via it.

It seems STAR has an issue getting across exactly what it does and it's successes. I'm not a fan of the organisation and so don't subscribe (always used to join the old supporters club and early STAR) but perhaps if it they communicated details of their challenges and successes more often my perception would change.

As Red says, a bit of open debate and sharing of opinion and experiences might just have a positive effect on work load and targeting relevant issues for the wider fan base.

[roadrunner]

I remember Salter standing up at a STAR AGM to ber8 Reading fans for racially abusing Plymouth's Rufus Brevett. Of course, they hadn't been making monkey noises at all; they had in fact been barking at him in the traditional 'Rufus is a dogs name' style

Good times.

[PieEater]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

[roadrunner]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

[Red]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

They're well meaning amateurs certainly, I'm not knocking any of them.

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

Personally I'm not knocking them just pointing out where there is room for improvement.

Any organisation should be willing to take on board fair and contstructive criticism if they want to improve what they do and, in STARs case, fulfil their stated aims of representing the fans/community to the club and improving the bonds between club and fans.

[Compo's Hat]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

I get the impression most only join for the coaches and fans forums. As i work most evenings now i haven't joined this year as i doubt i would be able to attend a fans forum and i haven't got a coach in years. I spend enough money on watching football as it is.

[STAR Liaison]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

Thank you for understanding - it is appreciated

[STAR Liaison]

I'm not a member of STAR but I have a real problem with people whinging about what they do or don't do when all the STAR members are just fans trying to do something for the supporters in their spare time.

They don't owe anybody anything, be that monitoring hobnob, taking up issues or responding to any posts. Ask yourself why they do it, and whether you would be as willing to take all these complaints and deal with them in such a rational way. If you think there's something not being done right then get off your arse, join STAR and do something about it yourself.

I get the impression most only join for the coaches and fans forums. As i work most evenings now i haven't joined this year as i doubt i would be able to attend a fans forum and i haven't got a coach in years. I spend enough money on watching football as it is.

This was one of the goals of the recent survey - to see why people join and also a reason we wanted non-members to complete it too - to find out why they didn't join. We want to provide more than fans forums and coaches and it proves that Reading supporters want us to as well.

We still have to complete our analysis and come to conclusions, but when it comes to the importance of the STAR activities we listed only 2 were less than 50% most important/great importance and they were 'providing links to fans' and 'organinsing social events' and when it comes to of no importance 'challenging national football policy' joined them but, for instance, 'looking after RFC history' seemed more important (just) than 'dealing with supporter problems' . Not what you might expect.

And why is it non-members think representing fans to RFC is more important than members do?

[Red]

And why is it non-members think representing fans to RFC is more important than members do?

Because they're the ones who are disenfranchised.

If you've bought a season ticket, pay a direct debit membership to STAR and attend every fans forum it's probably fair to say that you're more or less happy with the status quo.

[Sarah Star]

But Red, the question wasn't "Which STAR activities have the most importance" it was "Which STAR activities do you feel should have the most importance? "

If they felt disenfranchised like you say they would have wanted representation to be more important, surely.