England vs Holland

[Dare to Dr£am]

Pearce this morning wanting the job for the summer. No. No. No.

[Big Foot]

Parker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barry from 'Enders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barry White in his current st8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barymore >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gareth Barry

[Silver Fox]

Well, that was pretty poor, an offside goal and an admittedly good finish papering over some serious cracks. Thought EngLOLand defended well early but as the game went on Holland found it far too easy to open them up. Worst thing about the whole evening though was the continued use of ITV to cover football, fvck me they're dreadful and I can only assume they were somehow involved in giving Sturridge MOTM

[Schards#2]

F11ck the result, that was the first England game that I have vaguely enjoyed watching for a very long time.
For those that dropped out because of "sniffles and injuries"...keep them out

For the "old guard" not selected....the result probably would've been no better with them in the team.

Tonight, we more or less had the (experimental and young) team that we demanded from Cappello but never got....lets persevere.

At least Pearce handled the cry-offs and had the bollox to field the yoof that he was left with.......give him another go

Kind of agree with this but it was still pretty dull for the most part.

Who the hell drags themselves to Wembley with all the associated aggro, and pays monsterous prices to watch England friendlies? If they played one at the Madjeski I don't think I'd bother for more than a tenner.

[PieEater]

There looked to be a gulf in class between the teams, Holland comfortable in possession, fluent passing and direct attacks. England pass it neatly around the back 4 then hoof it up to Wellbeck or Sturridge. We got punished for not closing them down and constantly standing off them even in dangerous areas, OK Robben is a diving cheat and would have gone down at the slightest contact, but compare the way that most of the dutch team got stuck in and the yellow card count. They worked harder out of possession than us, and we gave it away too cheaply (Gerrard and Johnson being prime culprits).

Anyone who thinks that was a good display is deluded. The most you can say was that we at least created some chances and didn't take them, and did well to come back level from a two goal deficit.

[sandman]

Holland only really got out of second gear for two minutes and they scored in that time. After that they got complacent and were punished for it. In a tournament I doubt that would happen.

[sheshnu]

Hasn't it happened in just about every tournament they've ever played in?

[Vision]

It's pointless some people commenting on England games on here as club loyalties and personal prejudices against certain players seem to blinker the view.

England fans need a reality check. Holland are a better side than us. Pretty much all of that side last night was the one that reached the World Cup final, frustrating pretty much every team along the way including Spain in the final.

England had a largely makeshift side that for large portions of the game played pretty well.

Did Holland deserve to win? Yes
Did Holland have another gear to go up if needed. Probably
Does that mean that England were appalling and embarrassing as some on here are suggesting? Absolutely not.

England are a decent side with some players who in spells show enough promise that they might move us onto a level better than decent. That's exactly what last night's game was about and exactly what it confirmed.

Are we near the level of a Holland at this moment in time? Of course not
Is there some hope from last night's game that we could get near to their level in the future? Yes there was

[cmonurz]

It's pointless some people commenting on England games on here as club loyalties and personal prejudices against certain players seem to blinker the view.

England fans need a reality check. Holland are a better side than us. Pretty much all of that side last night was the one that reached the World Cup final, frustrating pretty much every team along the way including Spain in the final.

England had a largely makeshift side that for large portions of the game played pretty well.

Did Holland deserve to win? Yes
Did Holland have another gear to go up if needed. Probably
Does that mean that England were appalling and embarrassing as some on here are suggesting? Absolutely not.

England are a decent side with some players who in spells show enough promise that they might move us onto a level better than decent. That's exactly what last night's game was about and exactly what it confirmed.

Are we near the level of a Holland at this moment in time? Of course not
Is there some hope from last night's game that we could get near to their level in the future? Yes there was

This,good post.

[TBM]

Pearce this morning wanting the job for the summer. No. No. No.

What does it matter?

We wont win the euros, if Harry is in charge for it and we lose then it will just make his job even harder........i say let Pearce take control until July, then let Harry build for the WC in Brazil

[Hoop Blah]

Holland only really got out of second gear for two minutes and they scored in that time. After that they got complacent and were punished for it. In a tournament I doubt that would happen.

That's a bit disingenuous and discounts the decent work the England team did to stifle the Dutch. I don't think they were playing within themselves as such, but we did defend reasonably well against one of the top teams in the world apart from a 10 minute spell where we lost our heads.

I thought it was quite an interesting game, but not one that proved a hell of a lot either way.

Plus points
Thought the back four and holding pair in midfield did a reasonable job. Cahill gave quite an assured performance
Parker did what you want of his type of player. I've just read the 'criticisms' of him from some on this thread and, fishing aside, he's perfectly adequate at what he does. Van Bommel is possibly the best in the world at that role and he isn't quick and certainly isn't as quick on the turn as Parker. De Jong is no better than Parker but has played a significant part in Holland's rise to one of the top 3 sides in the world
Sturridge looked dangerous

Negatives
Lovely finish aside Ashley Young had a bit of a stinker, especially once Gerrard went off . I was hoping he'd make a real case for playing in the hole when Rooney isn't available but he fluffed his lines a bit. Gave the ball away far too cheaply and didn't really create too much either. He'll get another chance there I'm sure but he'll need to do a lot better
Johnson only performed in spells as well and didn't really look any more of a threat than Downing which disappointed me
We looked pretty toothless upfront with neither Welbeck or, probably unsurprisingly, Campbell really troubling the Dutch backfour with anything but hard work. Bent isn't a great forward but we looked like we missed him last night. Concerning but not a shock of course
Gerrard. He looked off the pace from the off and perhaps was compensating for the injury that eventually saw him removed. In hindsight he probably shouldn't have played after 120 minutes on Sunday and this early in his comeback.


I was surprised to see Jones come on and then Richards move into the middle. A bit odd, but sums up both Pearce's management and Jones' own predicament at club and country.

Lots of work to do, but the youngsters will certainly have learnt a bit from last night and it should be remembered that we were playing a Dutch side who've had an excellent record over the last few years and we ran them pretty close.

Interesting to see the Germany v France result though.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

England are a decent side with some players who in spells show enough promise that they might move us onto a level better than decent. That's exactly what last night's game was about and exactly what it confirmed.

To me it just showed a case of "new England, same as old England". Flat track bullies with a good record in qualifiers, who struggle the moment they come up against any team with real quality. I think we'll struggle to get out of our group in Ukraine in the summer.

The wouldn't be so bad, but the two tickets I got in the random draw for the tournament both ended up being England games. About the only player in an England shirt who has a spark of promise is Wayne Rooney, and he's suspended for both of them.

[Hoop Blah]

Pearce this morning wanting the job for the summer. No. No. No.

What does it matter?

We wont win the euros, if Harry is in charge for it and we lose then it will just make his job even harder........i say let Pearce take control until July, then let Harry build for the WC in Brazil

Why not give the manager an all important learning experience too though?

If anyone's going to have the Euro's as England manager on a short term basis at least give it to someone who can organise a team and select a reasonably balanced side. Hodgson would be the short term answer if we're too scared to let Harry get involved at this point.

As for 2014, why build for that one? We've got just as much chance of winning the Euro's as we have a World Cup in South America.

[FinchOwl]

I was surprised to see Jones come on and then Richards move into the middle. A bit odd, but sums up both Pearce's management and Jones' own predicament at club and country.

I had a little rant about this at my work colleague this morning, Jones is one player who could become world class, and help us play a more passing game by bringing the ball out the back, but he has to be played as a centre half for both club and country. The odd game here and there in other positions won't do him any harm, but he needs to learn his position, not be shunted to right back or centre mid ALL the time. I won't hold my breath

Apart from that, England were ok, but we really need to start trusting people with the ball, all too often we wont make an easy pass to a player if he is being marked or has an opponent near him. Even playing the ball to him and getting it back straight away will keep the opposition moving around, and the more you do that the more space you create for yourself. English players tend to ignore that option and hit a longer pass which gets cut out, which is rubbish. Spain, Holland, France etc don't do that, they trust the man being marked to use the ball.

I guess the problem lies in A.kids used to be coached not to pass the ball to a man being marked, and B.the players currently playing for England being products of that system. Hopefully this is changing or has already changed - otherwise we'll be screwed for a while yet

[cmonurz]

To me it just showed a case of "new England, same as old England". Flat track bullies with a good record in qualifiers, who struggle the moment they come up against any team with real quality. I think we'll struggle to get out of our group in Ukraine in the summer.

Define 'struggle'? If you mean, we don't often beat teams that are without doubt better than us, then yes, you're right. But as I highlighted on this or another thread, our recent competitive record against the best teams isn't bad.

Argentina 2-2, lost on penalties
Brazil 1-2 (and we might/should have won it)
Italy 0-0
Portugal 2-2, lost on penalties
Spain, when did we last play them competitively?
Germany 1-4
France, don't remember the score, didn't they get a last minute winner?
Holland 4-0

It's only Germany that have given us an absolute pasting. It's a myth that we are out of our depth when we come up against the best sides.

[Dare to Dr£am]

Pearce this morning wanting the job for the summer. No. No. No.

What does it matter?

What does it matter? Um let me have a think. An inexperienced manager vs an experienced manager leading us into Euro 2012. I'll come back to you.

[No Fixed Abode]

Wesley and Robben were class last night.

England really missed Terry, Rio, Lampard and Rooney. Once these players come back in we'll be ok.

[TBM]

Pearce this morning wanting the job for the summer. No. No. No.

What does it matter?

What does it matter? Um let me have a think. An inexperienced manager vs an experienced manager leading us into Euro 2012. I'll come back to you.

Please do.......

Being a fairly good club manager doesn't mean you're a superb international manager.......at least Pearce has managed the U21s at tournaments and has sat alongside Cappello and been involved in the day-to-day running of an international team - something Harry (or whoever) wont have time to experience before the tournament starts.

[Vision]

England are a decent side with some players who in spells show enough promise that they might move us onto a level better than decent. That's exactly what last night's game was about and exactly what it confirmed.

To me it just showed a case of "new England, same as old England". Flat track bullies with a good record in qualifiers, who struggle the moment they come up against any team with real quality. I think we'll struggle to get out of our group in Ukraine in the summer.

The wouldn't be so bad, but the two tickets I got in the random draw for the tournament both ended up being England games. About the only player in an England shirt who has a spark of promise is Wayne Rooney, and he's suspended for both of them.

I think we're generally the opposite of flat track bullies. We generally just about beat the sides we're expected too and the German game in 2010 apart play better against the better sides.Admittely we usually err on the side of narrow defeat in those games but it's nolt as if those quality sides actually tear us to pieces. I know it was only a friendly but even so we did beat the World/European champions the last time out, which shouldn't be completely disregarded.

As for Rooney being the only "spark of promise". I think thats being extremely pessimistic. It's all personal opinion of course but I saw quite a lot of promise in last night's game.Ashley Young had a generally poor game but his finish for the equaliser was sublime and in the last couple of games I've seen him play for England he always produces one or two moments which are genuine world class. At International level thats sometimes the difference. Sturridge too gets things wrong but again shows moments where he makes me believe he can cause problems for the very best sides.

It's worth remembering that last night saw the nucleus of a side that are mere fledglings in their international careers (even the captain has barely double figures in terms of caps). They've got to learn and learn pretty quickly of course (cutting out the basic errors which are the general by-product of inexperience) but in the context of last nights opposition's far superior International pedigree & experience there was enough there to offer more than spark of promise.

[No Fixed Abode]

I don't see that it matters who manages England tbh. We'll huff and puff in the group stages then get knocked out in the 1/4 finals against another average side that we'll make look gr8.