Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Franchise FC » 08 May 2012 20:44

Mr Optimist Joking aside, Rangers will survive whether in current form or as AFC Rangers or something similar. I can also see Rangers starting out in Division 1 and not 3 as well.

And fining a club about to go bust....seriously what is that all about?


Just to make sure.

It's the old Alex Ferguson joke.

If you're in a room with Alex Ferguson and a lion and you've got a gun with two bullets, etc........

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by watfordroyal » 08 May 2012 22:07

weybridgewanderer
watfordroyal Miller pulls out of Rangers bid, coz of Rangers fans & not being told the full story! :lol:

This gets better & better! :lol:



as a rangers fan this news gets more an more depressing

How do you think Aberdeen survive if there is no Rangers next season? Will you have the income through sponsors, gates and TV money to honour your existing contracts and other commitments?


As I've said before, the scottish game would be so much better without the old firm, so one down, one to go!
Sponsors - really?
Gates - are down anyway, the impact is minimal - however see Hibs Dunfermline gets 15,000.
TV - yes sky would run away, but this is where the scottish govt could subsidise the national game until it was able to flourish with the greater competition & real opportunities. Christ how much did they spend on their own building let alone the arts ffs!
Change to a Summer league of 18 teams and tv will pay to fill the void of the EPL in summer.
And where are all these huns gonna go with no team to follow, follow. Stand wailing outside an empty hampden! The ones I know will go back to following Hamilton, Airdrie, Morton, St Mirren, Motherwell etc.

So how do we get the tims down to england? :wink:

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 08 May 2012 23:09

watfordroyal As I've said before, the scottish game would be so much better without the old firm, so one down, one to go!

hmm, it depends. If the OF didn't exist at all, then yes. If they merely played somewhere else then the rest of the Scottish clubs would be even more ignored than now.

Change to a Summer league of 18 teams and tv will pay to fill the void of the EPL in summer.

I can't really see it. The premier league gets a lot of money because it gets fans to take out subscriptions. The advertising revenue isn't that great.

Hardly anyone who didn't already have a subscription would take one out just to watch football in the summer for two or three months (less in World Cup/Euros years) when there's no football on.

I do think they should go back to 18 (or maybe 16) clubs, but that's a different issue.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by weybridgewanderer » 09 May 2012 00:33

watfordroyal So how do we get the tims down to england? :wink:


Some would argue this is lawell's current gameplan

He sees an opportunity have have Rangers removed from the SPL and has tried gathering the wagons to make this happen. The resulting lack of finances would mean the rest of the SPL would have to go part time

Celtic could then turn round and say that, as the only pro team left they should be allowe dto go somewhere else

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by watfordroyal » 09 May 2012 08:39

weybridgewanderer
watfordroyal So how do we get the tims down to england? :wink:


Some would argue this is lawell's current gameplan

He sees an opportunity have have Rangers removed from the SPL and has tried gathering the wagons to make this happen. The resulting lack of finances would mean the rest of the SPL would have to go part time

Celtic could then turn round and say that, as the only pro team left they should be allowe dto go somewhere else


Don't see how non-OF would have to go part-time,
The tv deal is only £16m per season, of which the OF take the lions share, so the clubs only get say £600k - certainly less than £1m.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Terminal Boardom » 09 May 2012 08:56

I strongly believe that if both Rangers and Celtic were not involved with Scottish football then the game in Scotland would be considerably better and more open. Currently, there is no competition. It is one or the other. Occasionally, a Dundee Utd or an Aberdeen rises to the surface but just do not have the means to maintain whatever momentum that they had. Would I like to see Rangers or Celtic play in England? No thanks!

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Wimb » 09 May 2012 10:09

Terminal Boardom I strongly believe that if both Rangers and Celtic were not involved with Scottish football then the game in Scotland would be considerably better and more open. Currently, there is no competition. It is one or the other. Occasionally, a Dundee Utd or an Aberdeen rises to the surface but just do not have the means to maintain whatever momentum that they had. Would I like to see Rangers or Celtic play in England? No thanks!


Might be better but wouldn't the quality dip down to the level you see in the League of Ireland? The money is there largely because of the Old Firm clubs, take that away and where are you going to find the cash to keep the best players?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by weybridgewanderer » 09 May 2012 10:30

watfordroyal
weybridgewanderer
watfordroyal So how do we get the tims down to england? :wink:


Some would argue this is lawell's current gameplan

He sees an opportunity have have Rangers removed from the SPL and has tried gathering the wagons to make this happen. The resulting lack of finances would mean the rest of the SPL would have to go part time

Celtic could then turn round and say that, as the only pro team left they should be allowe dto go somewhere else


Don't see how non-OF would have to go part-time,
The tv deal is only £16m per season, of which the OF take the lions share, so the clubs only get say £600k - certainly less than £1m.


Dunermline could not afford to pay their players when Rangers were late with their payment for the away tickets.

Prize money for positions in the league would drop drastically, the league struggles to find sponsors as is.

Would your shirt sponser pay what he pays today if it was not being seen on TV several times a season?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by weybridgewanderer » 09 May 2012 10:32

Terminal Boardom I strongly believe that if both Rangers and Celtic were not involved with Scottish football then the game in Scotland would be considerably better and more open. Currently, there is no competition. It is one or the other. Occasionally, a Dundee Utd or an Aberdeen rises to the surface but just do not have the means to maintain whatever momentum that they had. Would I like to see Rangers or Celtic play in England? No thanks!


I am sure it would be "more open". The Championship is more open than the EPL, The conference is "more open" than the EPL.

That does not mean it is "better"


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by TFF » 09 May 2012 10:36

Is Celtic in the English leagues worth anything to anyone apart from Celtic?

I just don't see why the English leagues would accept them - it's of little or no benefit at all to the member clubs.

And frankly, so what if football in Scotland goes the way of the League of Ireland?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by watfordroyal » 09 May 2012 11:06

That Friday Feeling Is Celtic in the English leagues worth anything to anyone apart from Celtic?

I just don't see why the English leagues would accept them - it's of little or no benefit at all to the member clubs.

And frankly, so what if football in Scotland goes the way of the League of Ireland?


I just don't see this great decline to part-time football, a non-OF SPL would take a dip & need govt support at first,
but if Hibs can get 15,000 against Dunfermline (& it was normal prices!) it shows the potential.
With real competition & opportunity these gates could easily be sustained, and a tv deal would be forthcoming if the product was entertaining. Yes at a lesser amount, but not much less than they're getting just now, but I'm sure sky would be interested in live games through the summer.

How do the FL div 1 & 2 clubs survive? they don't receive any more in tv money?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 09 May 2012 14:36

watfordroyal With real competition & opportunity these gates could easily be sustained, and a tv deal would be forthcoming if the product was entertaining. Yes at a lesser amount, but not much less than they're getting just now, but I'm sure sky would be interested in live games through the summer.


Summer football would essentially just be June & July, in years when there's not world cup or euro tournament.

It'd hardly be a money-spinner.

On the other hand SKY/ESPN would probably offer a deal more or less on par with what the other clubs get now.


I don't buy into the idea that they'd have to go part-time. If clubs in the BSP can be full-time on gates of 2000, there's no reason why Scottish clubs drawing far in excess of that would need to go part-time.

There's also no reason at all to suspect it'd fall to Irish League levels. Scottish crowds are far higher than Irish crowds, where the league average is 1600. Even without the OF, the SPL averages around 7000.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Royal With Cheese » 09 May 2012 15:17

watfordroyal I just don't see this great decline to part-time football, a non-OF SPL would take a dip & need govt support at first, but if Hibs can get 15,000 against Dunfermline (& it was normal prices!)

That's a rediculous one off as it was effectively a relgation decider.

Remind me what Dunfermline's avage attendance is this year? Nudging 5,000.

Only 3 of the 12 teams in the SPL average over 10,000 while the majority compete with larger clubs in the 4th and 5th tier of English football.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by watfordroyal » 09 May 2012 16:24

Royal With Cheese
watfordroyal I just don't see this great decline to part-time football, a non-OF SPL would take a dip & need govt support at first, but if Hibs can get 15,000 against Dunfermline (& it was normal prices!)

That's a rediculous one off as it was effectively a relgation decider.

Remind me what Dunfermline's avage attendance is this year? Nudging 5,000.

Only 3 of the 12 teams in the SPL average over 10,000 while the majority compete with larger clubs in the 4th and 5th tier of English football.


Like I said it shows the potential of gates that could be achieved with something on the game, there would be more interest if it were for the title, and not playing each other at least the 4th time in a season.

I think following Sweden/Norway summer league, it seems 16 teams would work best from March - Sept, scrap the league cup, just keep the Scottish Cup.
Sky/ESPN don't do the World Cup/Euros, so they want something to show instead, & Scotland unlikely to qualify anyway :wink:

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Z175 » 10 May 2012 10:12

watfordroyal
Royal With Cheese
watfordroyal I just don't see this great decline to part-time football, a non-OF SPL would take a dip & need govt support at first, but if Hibs can get 15,000 against Dunfermline (& it was normal prices!)

That's a rediculous one off as it was effectively a relgation decider.

Remind me what Dunfermline's avage attendance is this year? Nudging 5,000.

Only 3 of the 12 teams in the SPL average over 10,000 while the majority compete with larger clubs in the 4th and 5th tier of English football.


Like I said it shows the potential of gates that could be achieved with something on the game, there would be more interest if it were for the title, and not playing each other at least the 4th time in a season.
:


Totally Agree - Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts and Hibs would all thrive without the O.F. All the attendances are down because of the lack of being able to win anything. As this is due to the bigger wage budgets which Rangers could not afford, its unsurprising the other fans are bitter. 20k crowds are entirely plausible if they are in a title/champions league fight. Perhaps long term even a team like Partick could benefit if they were the only SPL football in Glasgow. It would be plausible to have a 16-18 team league too so perhaps the likes of Falkirk/Raith/Caley could build towards something too. It wouldn't be a great standard, but it would be on a par with Norway and Denmark.

As for the fate of the Old firm- well some have suggested an Atlantic league but I think the Champions League money as spread this issue over every league. There should be a Euro League 1, Euro League 2 and Euro League 3 for the richer "franchises" and the stronger clubs from each league and then the rest of us can have traditional, low paid, passionate games between our towns!

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Friday's Legacy » 10 May 2012 13:21

Trevor Birch: "We have three weeks to do something".

Tick, tock..

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Franchise FC » 10 May 2012 17:24

Friday's Legacy Trevor Birch: "We have three weeks to do something".

Tick, tock..


Suggests he hasn't been doing anything for the last ...... how long ?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Geekins » 11 May 2012 10:53

Portsmouth took money from fans to pass onto Charites... but wait... they never passed the money on! :roll:

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompe ... -1-3830530

Charities waiting for cash raised at Pompey matches
Pompey are in a new row over charity cash

Published on Friday 11 May 2012 07:52


MONEY which was supposed to be donated to good causes by Portsmouth Football Club has not been passed on to the charities, The News can reveal.


The club’s administrators PKF have confirmed that about £8,400 is outstanding to organisations dating back to before the club went into administration in February.

The cash was raised after a £2 administration fee was placed on tickets bought on match days at the start of the 2011/12 season, and fans were told the cash would be donated to charity.

The funds would be split between the Pompey Sports Education Foundation (PSEF) and whichever charity was collecting at Fratton Park on the day of the match.

But the administrators have confirmed that charities did not receive the admin fees from games held between October and December.

Almost £6,400 is owed to PSEF while the rest was to be split between Eastleigh-based charity Simon Says, U Support, The Rainbow Centre in Fareham, the British Legion and Help for Hospices, which teamed up with the Football League as its official partner charity for the 2011/12 season.

The games in question were the fixtures against Barnsley on October 15, Doncaster Rovers on October 22, Nottingham Forest on November 5, Leicester City on November 26 and Coventry City on December 3.

The £2 admin fee was dropped upon PKF’s appointment, the accountancy firm said.

Pompey’s parent company Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI) went into administration on November 29 and the club followed on February 17.

This is the second time the club has left charities without cash they were promised.

When the club went into administration in February 2010 several organisations including the Tom Prince Cancer Trust were not paid money they were owed. The club later reimbursed them.

Trevor Birch, the club’s administrator, said he had sympathy with the charities.

He said: ‘This is a desperately sad situation and it should not have been allowed to happen. Nobody wants to see charities losing out and I sympathise with everyone that is out of pocket.’

Paula Wiseman, operations manager at Simon Says, said the charity was owed around £350.

She said: ‘We went bucket collecting outside Fratton Park for the Doncaster Rovers game. It was great and the club said we would get a percentage of all ticket sales.

‘Subsequently with the situation they were in, the administrators are trying to put our case forward to get that money for us – it would be a huge benefit to us.

‘Pompey have been really good in supporting charities in the community. Initially I didn’t think there was a problem and we were arranging cheque presentations.’

Clare Acklam, fundraising manager at the Rainbow Centre, said the charity held a bucket collection at the Coventry City fixture.

She said: ‘We haven’t been paid the money yet but we have been asked to fill out a form by the administrators saying that we are owed money. We were quite surprised to know we were owed money. We are owed £292 from the ticket percentages.

‘I am hopeful of getting the money back. We would like to work with them again as collections make a difference to us.’

Related Articles
Lampitt: I take responsibility and apologise

DAVID Lampitt, who was Pompey’s chief executive when the club went into its most recent period of adminstration, apologised to the affected charities.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Jackson Corner » 11 May 2012 12:26

In fairness to Pompey they have done a fair bit of charity by giving homes and money to washed up passed it 2nd rate footballers for the last 12 months.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by PieEater » 11 May 2012 13:09

Geekins Lampitt: I take responsibility and apologise

DAVID Lampitt, who was Pompey’s chief executive when the club went into its most recent period of adminstration, apologised to the affected charities.


But still they get nothing whilst he walks away with a wad. If you take responsibility, IMHO that means you fork out the cash to pay them.

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