Football analysts on TV

[Starfish]

B. Learn how to pronounce foreign players names properly, it really isn't difficult.

This. I obviously hear it when they are using (for example) German names but is 'Cesare' really pronounced the way it was on the BBC tonight? Chey-ser-ray?

[John Madejski's Wallet]

B. Learn how to pronounce foreign players names properly, it really isn't difficult.

This. I obviously hear it when they are using (for example) German names but is 'Cesare' really pronounced the way it was on the BBC tonight? Chey-ser-ray?

I both agree and disagree.

Commentators trying to pronounce a name as if they were a native speaker (as the BBC especially is trying to do now) is just f*cking stupid.

Example: part way through the season for every BBC commentator, Villa-Boas went from "vi-yas bo-as" to "vi-yash bo-ash"...... which universally sounded f*cking stupid from everyone. Everyone has an accent of some sort, accept it FFS.

You wouldnt expect a spanish commentator to say "John Madejski" with a Reading accent, so why should anyone feel compelled to attempt the same. They will always b*lls it up anyway, as the pronunciation will never satisfy everyone

[Starfish]

It's called being professional. If I was going to be on TV with millions and millions of people listening, I would make sure in advance that I knew how the names are pronounced ... more or less.

Polish and Russian names are one thing, but Spanish and Italian shouldn't be so difficult.

[sheshnu]

If you're talking to a dude and he tells you how to actually pronounce his name, surely it's only polite to try and do it the way he says...?

Perhaps this is why the pronunciation of AVB's name changed once the chaps down the BBC had a chance to talk to him? I dunno, not really fussed about how names are pronounced generally, as JMW points out it's just people's different accents. I actually quite like it when someone like Pleat or indeed Mick Gooding gets it horrendously wrong. It's just a bit of fun; people with names like Le Fondre do quite annoy me though, why have such an ambiguously written name when you're from Stockport?

[Ark Royal]

Had the excellent Ian Darke and Steve McManamanamanaman co-commentating for ESPN in the US. Unfortunately, the studio link had Alexei Lalas, the mono-syllabic Michael Ballack and the footballing non-entity that is Taylor Twellman. Luckily, as the average American viewer's attention span for in-depth sporting analysis is about fifteen seconds, their worthless bon mots were thankfully brief.

Really like the Darkester and pleasantly surprised by how actually insightful the Scouser was despite having a face that looks like he is sucking a lemon that a cat has just pissed on. A scholarly man of words and letters compared to Lawrenson, who just makes me want to bite myself very hard indeed.

[sheshnu]

We have Mcmanaman (never typed that before, lol) on ESPN over here sometimes and I find him refreshingly honest. Ian Darke is someone I hate but I can't put my finger on why - like him on the boxing though (is that him?)

[Ark Royal]

We have Mcmanaman (never typed that before, lol) on ESPN over here sometimes and I find him refreshingly honest. Ian Darke is someone I hate but I can't put my finger on why - like him on the boxing though (is that him?)

Yes, remember him from Sky boxing nights. Transferred over well.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

It's called being professional. If I was going to be on TV with millions and millions of people listening, I would make sure in advance that I knew how the names are pronounced ... more or less.

Polish and Russian names are one thing, but Spanish and Italian shouldn't be so difficult.

Its called "impossible", surely. Accents surely shift from city to city even in Germany, so the name will sound stupid to someone. So long as someone has made a decent effect, then I think to expect perfection is ridiculous.

I certainly wouldnt expect a Scouser or a Geordie to get my {very average english] name exactly how I like it. But they get it right enough within the confines of their accent that I know they're talking to me.

As for the "more or less", not being native speakers (and not being able to ask and learn from every individual player) I do wonder where they get the pronunciation from. Presumably an in-house translator? Because if so, that person's accent is going to be specific (and probably incorrect for some players)

[John Madejski's Wallet]

If you're talking to a dude and he tells you how to actually pronounce his name, surely it's only polite to try and do it the way he says...?

Perhaps this is why the pronunciation of AVB's name changed once the chaps down the BBC had a chance to talk to him?

Yet I bet Villas-Boas still didnt pronounce his name exactly like Gary Lineker et al's "viy-ash bo-ash". All it did was make them sound like they were taking to p*ss out of Martin Yol!

I think personally I wouldnt want to really chat to anyone that wanted their name pronounced perfectly. Its like being in France and someone not selling me a stamp as my pronunciation wasn't perfect enough. They knew what I was saying but were too aloof to help me out. I would certainly never ask a foreigner to keep repeating my name until is was said with a perfect Reading accent. To do so would be arrogance of epic proportions. A decent stab so it is understandable should suffice

[sheshnu]

(and not being able to ask and learn from every individual player)

The thing is with these famous footballers there will surely be a record somewhere of them saying their own name, so it's actually quite easy to learn how they say it themselves and how they would want to be represented. I don't give two hoots how people want to pronounce my name because as you say, a decent effort is good enough and generally I know who they're referring to; when I'm broadcasting to millions of people I might want to make an effort to have things said 'properly' though. It really isn't difficult.

I only really mind when people I don't like anyway get it wrong, another stick to beat them with innit.

I'm looking at you, Shearer.

[sheshnu]

http://www.forvo.com/word/andr%C3%A9_villas-boas/

How to pronounce AVB 'properly'. So yeah you're right Mr Wallet, a decent stab is about as good as you can expect.

[LUX]

Keown, Shearer and Hansen OK last night tbf. Lawro's inanity should just be ignored. But we do need a coup d'etat at the BBC.

Vialli visibly hurt by what happened on the pitch. Understandably.

[Handsome Man]

Commentators shouldn't try at all to pronounce the foreign names. It is unnecessary, and getting them half right is worse than just using some kind of flat English pronunciation. Saying Rail Madrid is quite enough. As soon as s sounds become sh, it all gets silly.

Anyway, I thought Lawrenson was OK last night, but that has to be it. Like John Terry, he is not going to be up to the task in two years time and should be shownthe door now, so new talent can come through.

[Terminal Boardom]

Lawarenson was dreadful. His comment early on that football was about scoring lots of goals (about 10 minutes in) made me want (as AR suggested) to bite myself. Like the Liverpool team he played in scored millions The point of the game is to score more than the opposition. I think Spain may have just about shaded that last night.

Without doubt, the worst pundit of all and that urincludes that oxf*rd Townsend.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Commentators shouldn't try at all to pronounce the foreign names. It is unnecessary, and getting them half right is worse than just using some kind of flat English pronunciation. Saying Rail Madrid is quite enough. As soon as s sounds become sh, it all gets silly.

That's nonsense. It's not even about accent, but how you pronounce a certain letter in some languages.

Maybe you rather talk about Peter Ketch in goal for Chelsea, pronounce the "j" as an English J in Arjen Robben, and get ready to cheer on Jimmy Keeb for Reading next season, but it'd make you look a bit stupid.


the only thing I would say is if you have an awkward pronunciation to learn, make sure you've learned it before using it, so you don't sound like a five year old reading off flash cards.

[frimmers3]

what was all the "skinny tie" nonsense about last night? some sort of inside joke,or just a reminder that earning millions from sport does not imbue you with the ability to cut a dash?

[Bring Back The SB]

Last night was just awful - aren't co commentators supposed to be there to add helpful insight around tactics and the the real nitty gritty of the game as it progresses?

He was just lining up his next inane joke, if we want a comedian in the comentry box thats fine, get one in but this guy is really taking the piss now and I just can't listen to him anymore. I ended up turning the volume down and listening to it on talksport.

Surely the BBC would have noticed and been a bit red faced about it and do something about it?

He offers no insight at all.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Not surprisingly, more people chose to watch BBC than ITV on a 6:1 ratio.

[TBM]

I dont know why Lee Dixon doesn't do TV co-commentating, he did 5Live before moving to MOTD so should be used to it

Same with Danny Mills

[Silver Fox]

You wouldnt expect a spanish commentator to say "John Madejski" with a Reading accent,

Yet it's almost exactly like that if you listen to Spanish commentary of an English game (at least it used to be back in the days when you couldn't just get the English commentary in Spain) although I'm not sure about their pronunciation of SJM's name. The fast show style of commentary isn't that far from the truth (no-xenophobo) and it always used to make us chuckle when the excitable latin commentary would be interrupted by a slow "Jeremy Goss" or "Michael Gray"