MATCHWATCH : Luton Town (h)

[stealthpapes]

Wish we could get a manager to build an attractive footballing outfit, instead we have someone wanting to play football from the dark ages.
All we do is pass sideways, backwards and then hoof to one of the opposition defenders.

There is the argument of course that managers see the players we have and decide that that is the best way to play with their skillsets.

The Wigan podcast interview when Richardson joined said he reverted to "pub football" to keep them up in dire circumstances in his first season, before building a more direct, exciting style in the second.

I feel like that has to be the right way to go about it, we just happen to be in the "pub football" stage with the squad he inherited.

The alternative is to be purist and say your playing style is non negotiatiable. Being fair, it worked for Selles even with a tactical tweak. But those sorts of managers normally come unstuck, and I wonder if Luton would be doing better with a manager who focuses on the players available instead of the style he wants to play.

The "safety first" managers also come unstuck at times, but because they're doing something perceived as safer, they get a lot less criticism for it.

[Hound]

The first half was pretty dreadful in retrospect. The pen was literally our only chance of any kind which was pretty shite

We did at least create some opening second period. Flattered really by very good finishes from KE and Marriott

Time to freshen up the midfield with Fraser I think. Savage and Wing must have played nearly every minute

Still think Marriott on his own up top is a very poor idea. Him and Kelvin together though could be a decent mix to see us through to Jan. both have a few goals in them and may give us a proper target to aim for

They’d be the changes I’d make

If you define chance as shot, we had two.. if you go beyond just a shot, we were nearly in a few times.

Not really. DK had a nice run then passed a cross straight to their defender and Marriott gave the ball back to their defender when he was sort of a bit through but surrounded by 2 big lumps. The other shot (not the pen) was that 45 yard wing effort which trickled 10 metres wide

[WestYorksRoyal]

There is the argument of course that managers see the players we have and decide that that is the best way to play with their skillsets.

The Wigan podcast interview when Richardson joined said he reverted to "pub football" to keep them up in dire circumstances in his first season, before building a more direct, exciting style in the second.

I feel like that has to be the right way to go about it, we just happen to be in the "pub football" stage with the squad he inherited.

The alternative is to be purist and say your playing style is non negotiatiable. Being fair, it worked for Selles even with a tactical tweak. But those sorts of managers normally come unstuck, and I wonder if Luton would be doing better with a manager who focuses on the players available instead of the style he wants to play.

The "safety first" managers also come unstuck at times, but because they're doing something perceived as safer, they get a lot less criticism for it.

I guess Ince tried to get us playing basic football and it was terrible. You do need to be picking up points to justify it and he wasn't by the end.

[West F]

I appreciate the win and the much needed three points. It is quite a culture shock to have gone from a side that dominated possession, both home and away, to one that surrenders it. Using turnovers and direct back to front balls to create opportunities. With a detached view of the match, it did look and feel like a team fighting relegation overcoming one with lofty ambition.
I suppose that this is fair and reflects who and where we are now. Still think we have enough to stay up. Marriot is deadly and our centre backs are warriors. There is just something alien about chucking shit into channels, fight balls and percentages that will take some getting used to. Luton looked like a side who are affected by injuries going forwards, and not great defensively. You can see that they want to get the ball down and work opportunities while maintaining possession. We were actually quite good at disrupting this, closed down quickly and effectively, to then go direct when the ball was won. When it works, it is ok. When it doesn’t, what is plan B?
Doyle is an issue, moreover, the Doyle position is an issue. Both Wing and Savage come in for a great deal of criticism for the performance of the midfield. They are effectively working as a pair, often outnumbered and overrun in many matches. If we are going to play in this direct style, the effectiveness and necessity for an out and out number ten is greatly reduced. The position becomes largely redundant. Playing the likes of Rinomhota or Crawley guy would make more sense. I like him as a player, but he has not done enough for us so far, and in a team that will be bypassing him most of the time now, can’t see him really having a role. Knibbs on the other hand, would have slotted in perfectly.

[MR. CYNICAL]

My main frustration is the inability to pass the ball forward when we have the ball in midfield, too often we check and pass backwards in those positions instead of driving/ moving the ball forwards. Dorsett being a prime example, always goes backwards as if he's been told not to cross the halfway line!

[Hound]

Watching back, that D Williams assist was arguably the best bit of CF hold up play we’ve had all season. Brilliant stuff

[MR. CYNICAL]

Good win.

Wilshere looks to be building an attractive footballing outfit, with some lovely passing movements and interplay.

I think that will prove to be a very decent 3 points.

Wish we could get a manager to build an attractive footballing outfit, instead we have someone wanting to play football from the dark ages.
All we do is pass sideways, backwards and then hoof to one of the opposition defenders.

There is the argument of course that managers see the players we have and decide that that is the best way to play with their skillsets.

Don't think we have many players with those skillsets

[Snowflake Royal]

My main frustration is the inability to pass the ball forward when we have the ball in midfield, too often we check and pass backwards in those positions instead of driving/ moving the ball forwards. Dorsett being a prime example, always goes backwards as if he's been told not to cross the halfway line!

It won’t be that extreme, but the side is balanced around one full back pushing up (Abrefa) and the winger using that to come inside, whilst the other fullback stays back to tuck in with the CBs and their winger stays wide.

[South Coast Royal]

Pretty well summed up by most posters.
Watching from home it did look as though our sole plan was to hit the ball long and hope and in fact it brought about the penalty because of the panic shown by their keeper.

Our second goal was a decisive 3 man move brought about by their defender just giving us the ball and it showed that we can actually play 3 passes when necessary but at the moment often choose not to .

Two really good clinical finishes from Marriott and Kelvin, the only two real chances that we made in the whole game.

The biggest plus last night was the defensive collective where all 6 showed great commitment in generally keeping Luton out and of course we do have a top keeper who really should be playing at a higher level.

I guess we have to accept that this is now our game plan-defend deep, hit long balls and hope that somebody in an advanced position will take one of the rare chances offered.
Beggars can't be choosers as we are definitely too near the relegation spots but the work ethic is there and we have a few players who can finish which is not always the case at this level.

For those of us who want to see something different than the old Wimbledon we are going to have to wait and just accept that is the Reading way at least for now and hope that next season or the season after will see us playing a more expansive style which will be necessary if we are ever to see higher level football again.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Watching back, that D Williams assist was arguably the best bit of CF hold up play we’ve had all season. Brilliant stuff

Yep, love him. Only watched the highlights, what was he doing up there?

[Clyde1998]

Any guesses on how the switch to THursday worked financially? If it had been played on Saturday I’d expect a crowd of 12-13,000, a festive spirit, more than usual spending in bars, the shop etc. Obvs the club get the money from non attending ST holders anyway. How many of the 9000 declared gate actually in the ground? What’s the Sky TV fee? Does it even compensate?

Financially, it would've been negative. IIRC, the Sky TV money works out to be around £1m per season (notwithstanding any Premier League payments or international broadcast rights). If we say that's over twenty matches (including midweek games on the red button, etc.), it works out to be £50k per game.

£50k would be the equivalent of an extra 2,500 ticket sales (post tax), if we assume the average adult pays £25 for a ticket, and that's not taking into account any expenditure on merchandising; food/drink; etc. Hospitality looked abnormally well occupied last night though.

In terms of the crowd, the club reports turnstile figures (ie. how many turned up, not ticket sales). That can easily be worked out by us having roughly 9,000 season ticket holders; the overall crowd being 9,252; and Luton bringing 1,101 supporters last night - so 8,151 home fans turned up (lower than the reported total season ticket sales). 8,151 is the lowest of the season, but not as low as three matches last season (Cambridge; Shrewsbury; Exeter).

[Clyde1998]

Watching back, that D Williams assist was arguably the best bit of CF hold up play we’ve had all season. Brilliant stuff

Yep, love him. Only watched the highlights, what was he doing up there?

He'd stayed up from the free kick we had before it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Watching back, that D Williams assist was arguably the best bit of CF hold up play we’ve had all season. Brilliant stuff

Yep, love him. Only watched the highlights, what was he doing up there?

Think he stayed up from a set piece.

He also did the best flick on of the season a couple of games ago, I think Posh, that I think nearly put Marriott in.

I was suggesting playing him upfront after that game if we're just going to hoof it. He's not done anything to hurt the suggestion!

[Clyde1998]

Not got much to add beyond what's already been said, but delighted Ehibhatiomhan came on and got a goal - great run; great touch; great finish. Although the initial work by Derrick Williams to bring the ball down and play it was impressive; just shows a more direct style can work when you've actually got someone up the pitch who can do that.

We didn't create much beyond the goals, but then Luton didn't create much beyond their goals. The next best chance I can think of in the game was when Lewis Wing forced Pereira into a save from a corner in the first half or when they fired wide in stoppage time.

Also good to see Fraser; Burns; and O'Mahony get minutes (or more minutes in Fraser's case), as it suggests they'll be available over the Christmas/New Year period.

[fred sharpes nose]

Got to say Wing and Savage may as well fukk off

Zero attacking intent, no desire to push forward and support breaks. Fukking bored of it

Interesting this comment. Did not go but listened. Seems were drifiting towards kick and rush as a deliberate philosophy (Pub football on Viagra) - strong solid lumps and lots of intensity , percentage games etc. Sad - dull and not what we've been used to - hey ho

So I guess Wing and Svage are doing what they are told to do by the manager

My thought - we signed Wing early - the best midfielder in the League - you would have expected us to buld a team around him (and Savage) but recruitment either failed to deliver on that or tactically hoofball was all Noel knows and he reverted to type - his consistent comment was Wing plays deep because if he plays higher up he has 3 players on him (no comment on how that would leave 2 players free to exploit this - maybe the lightbulb had not come on , but thats another story).

Is Leam just a more experienced one dimensional dinusaur, than Noel was ?

Is there really a place for Wing (and Savage ?) in the new regime ??? Does leam think he does not need Wing?

Wing has not looked happy this season, his contribution is less effective, is he really enjoying his hoof-meister role?

Having second thoughts on re signing ? Career not moving forwards but backwards. Will he still be here February 1st ?? My guess is if he got the right opportunity he'd be off, though is likely a less attractive proposition than he was in the summer.

He stays - and sees his career out playing this dull football - what a waste

Wouldn't be surprised if the club sold him and Savage to raise cash.....

[Hound]

Tbh I’ve no real issue with hoofball. Quite often more exciting and dynamic than the overdone play out from the back etc

Obvs it has its limitations but I’d rather go forward directly and quickly (albeit with the correct profile of player) than continuously passing it backwards. Man City were one of the dullest teams I’ve ever watched at their peak a few years ago. I don’t think I could watch us under Russell Martin for example

[Snowflake Royal]

Got to say Wing and Savage may as well fukk off

Zero attacking intent, no desire to push forward and support breaks. Fukking bored of it

Interesting this comment. Did not go but listened. Seems were drifiting towards kick and rush as a deliberate philosophy (Pub football on Viagra) - strong solid lumps and lots of intensity , percentage games etc. Sad - dull and not what we've been used to - hey ho

So I guess Wing and Svage are doing what they are told to do by the manager

My thought - we signed Wing early - the best midfielder in the League - you would have expected us to buld a team around him (and Savage) but recruitment either failed to deliver on that or tactically hoofball was all Noel knows and he reverted to type - his consistent comment was Wing plays deep because if he plays higher up he has 3 players on him (no comment on how that would leave 2 players free to exploit this - maybe the lightbulb had not come on , but thats another story).

Is Leam just a more experienced one dimensional dinusaur, than Noel was ?

Is there really a place for Wing (and Savage ?) in the new regime ??? Does leam think he does not need Wing?

Wing has not looked happy this season, his contribution is less effective, is he really enjoying his hoof-meister role?

Having second thoughts on re signing ? Career not moving forwards but backwards. Will he still be here February 1st ?? My guess is if he got the right opportunity he'd be off, though is likely a less attractive proposition than he was in the summer.

He stays - and sees his career out playing this dull football - what a waste

Wouldn't be surprised if the club sold him and Savage to raise cash.....

Put Knibbs in front of Savage and Wing and all is good. Doyle and Elliott are not in his league, hence.
their place with us.

[MR. CYNICAL]

Tbh I’ve no real issue with hoofball. Quite often more exciting and dynamic than the overdone play out from the back etc

Obvs it has its limitations but I’d rather go forward directly and quickly (albeit with the correct profile of player) than continuously passing it backwards. Man City were one of the dullest teams I’ve ever watched at their peak a few years ago. I don’t think I could watch us under Russell Martin for example

It may get the ball forward quickly but 90% of the time it comes straight back as a defender would win it and we struggle to win the second ball in midfield as Wing and Savage are so deep.
Don't think JP is comfortable kicking long either, he's a much better short passer and likes to throw the ball out.
We only had 9 touches in the opposition box on Thursday and 6 shots, Luton had 28 touches in our box and 11 shots with their 65% possession.

[Snowflake Royal]

Tbh I’ve no real issue with hoofball. Quite often more exciting and dynamic than the overdone play out from the back etc

Obvs it has its limitations but I’d rather go forward directly and quickly (albeit with the correct profile of player) than continuously passing it backwards. Man City were one of the dullest teams I’ve ever watched at their peak a few years ago. I don’t think I could watch us under Russell Martin for example

It may get the ball forward quickly but 90% of the time it comes straight back as a defender would win it and we struggle to win the second ball in midfield as Wing and Savage are so deep.
Don't think JP is comfortable kicking long either, he's a much better short passer and likes to throw the ball out.
We only had 9 touches in the opposition box on Thursday and 6 shots, Luton had 28 touches in our box and 11 shots with their 65% possession.

That's not a problem with the style, it's a problem with the implentation and player's ability to perform in it.

And we beat Luton.

I'm not a huge fan of the long ball, but it's a weapon any decent team should have in its arsenal. And I agree with Hound that passing round defence is dull as ditch water. Passing and possession for the sake of passing and possession is one of the worst things to ever happen to football.

[MR. CYNICAL]

Tbh I’ve no real issue with hoofball. Quite often more exciting and dynamic than the overdone play out from the back etc

Obvs it has its limitations but I’d rather go forward directly and quickly (albeit with the correct profile of player) than continuously passing it backwards. Man City were one of the dullest teams I’ve ever watched at their peak a few years ago. I don’t think I could watch us under Russell Martin for example

It may get the ball forward quickly but 90% of the time it comes straight back as a defender would win it and we struggle to win the second ball in midfield as Wing and Savage are so deep.
Don't think JP is comfortable kicking long either, he's a much better short passer and likes to throw the ball out.
We only had 9 touches in the opposition box on Thursday and 6 shots, Luton had 28 touches in our box and 11 shots with their 65% possession.

That's not a problem with the style, it's a problem with the implentation and player's ability to perform in it.

And we beat Luton.

I'm not a huge fan of the long ball, but it's a weapon any decent team should have in its arsenal. And I agree with Hound that passing round defence is dull as ditch water. Passing and possession for the sake of passing and possession is one of the worst things to ever happen to football.

Yes we best Luton, but it could of gone either way at 2_2.
Not asking for passing and possession for the sake of it, just to be able to pass the ball forward through the midfield now and again.
Wouldn't be so bad if we mixed it up a bit and not be so one dimensional and if we haven't the players to perform it, why try and implement it?