Goals change games.

For the first 20-25 thought we looked pretty decent moved the ball around well and got into some dangerous positions on the pitch without taking on the opportunity to shoot or drive into the box.

I feel we are moving the ball box to box pretty well but when we get into that final third our decision making needs to be better. Garcia chance sums up our problems for me. Our number 9 turns down the chance to shoot himself and passes instead. Same issue in the second half , good counter attack opportunity and tries a flashy pass. We are desperate for someone up top who LEADS the line.

At 2-0 down heads dropped and we looked really poor, credit to Derrick Williams when he came on he seemed to get us organised and we had a bit of fight at the end.

This side just needs a bit of time and a striker (maybe 2) and the results will come.

I agree with all of this BUT I think Noel has to change as well. Playing Wing as as a DMF like a quarterback is insane with Wings talent.
Wing has a 10 on his back....play him as a 10..not in a position where he is toothless. When he was advanced and got a bit of space we looked better and he even found space to score. Another gripe is why is Elliot sitting on the bench? He has done nothing wrong to warrant that.....Some of his decisions I find puzzling.

Noel touched on this on BBCRB after the match. He said that when Wing is playing further forward he is often being man marked and can’t get on the ball as much. Idea of dropping deep then free’s up a full back to go into midfield. Saw that a bit today with Matty Jacob.

I have assumed after last season they’re being careful with Elliott, trying to bring him up to speed carefully rather than throw him in too soon and risk another long lay-off.

Has more to do with relegated Crawley guy being his signing and Elliot not being so. That is why Doyle came on and not him. When in truth, both should have started. We were at home and should have given them a problem by imposing what we wanted to do, instead of worrying about what they would do.

Noel touched on this on BBCRB after the match. He said that when Wing is playing further forward he is often being man marked and can’t get on the ball as much. Idea of dropping deep then free’s up a full back to go into midfield. Saw that a bit today with Matty Jacob.

Hopefully Matty Jacob is freed up to go back to Hull in January.

Noel touched on this on BBCRB after the match. He said that when Wing is playing further forward he is often being man marked and can’t get on the ball as much. Idea of dropping deep then free’s up a full back to go into midfield. Saw that a bit today with Matty Jacob.
This is the thing I'm amazed all these people calling for Wing to be further forward don't get.

Deeper he gets time and space. He scored today, because he was our deep midfielder, ghosting in to a danger area unnoticed. If he was playing further forward, he wouldn't have been free and in space that far out to pick up and shoot. Someone would be on him. Deeper, he's being pressed by one player, in a more open part of the pitch, he can look forward, but he's also always got safe options backwards and sideways if it isn't on and he's sharp enough to be able to choose his option.

Further forward, everything's tighter, he'll have more players near him able to get closer and close his passing lines out. Yes, he's trying the hollywood ball a bit much, and it's not coming off as well as last season. But push him forward, and that 60 yard diagonal is no longer an option for him. And no one else in the team can do it nearly as well.

The midfield, less so today admittedly, is one of the better functioning parts of the team right now. We have the pieces to have a very good midfield, to a similar standard of last year. Wing deep, Savage up and down, and then Doyle or Elliott showing for the pass, turning their man, finding some space between the lines and making something happen.

The forward line is struggling, but then that's not a surprise with the number of changes to the squad and XI we've had. Kelvin switching between two different positions and getting dropped. O'Mahoney getting dropped. Lane getting injured. Kyerewaa switching from left to right. Camara in and out.

And in defence, we dropped our best performing defender for a promising teenager who had one good cup game against Pompey reserves. Our big defensive leader is injured, and our experiences specialist LB looks like a mistake.

Hunt is showing his inexperience with the tinkering. IMO he saw we'd lost the first two games and got a cup win, and threw the plan out to try to match that, when it was the wrong thing to do. But injuries to Lane, Dorsett and O'Connor certainly aren't helping. He also needs to get them to cut loose a bit more. Take more shots rather than hoping the perfect opportunity will arise, work the keeper a bit, give the defence something else to think about.

We need to not panic, keep working hard, and our understanding will grow if we keep some consistency, a bit of a rub of he green will come up sooner or later and we'll have a good run. But constantly reacting and changing will just prolong the problem and the bad results.

Has more to do with relegated Crawley guy being his signing and Elliot not being so. That is why Doyle came on and not him. When in truth, both should have started. We were at home and should have given them a problem by imposing what we wanted to do, instead of worrying about what they would do.
Would also explain why Savage and Wing were on the bench.

I’ve no huge issue with Wing player that quarter back type role, but he was the worst culprit for just whacking long balls forward yesterday. Teams know what is coming from him in this role now and set up for it

At least if he is further forward and man marked that may free up space for someone else - we don’t need to be over reliant on him

Noel touched on this on BBCRB after the match. He said that when Wing is playing further forward he is often being man marked and can’t get on the ball as much. Idea of dropping deep then free’s up a full back to go into midfield. Saw that a bit today with Matty Jacob.

Matty Jacob can barely cope with playing full back at the moment, what advantage do we gain with him coming into midfield at the expense of Wing
Noel needs to play Fraser deeper with Wing as part of the midfield two, I am sure Hunt will eventually work that out for himself, but he needs to be quick about it, hopefully in the next four games or he will be gone.

I don't get why Jacob is struggling so much. Hull fans were very complimentary and he's got a good amount of experience at a higher level. He had a proper pre season across the 2 clubs, he should be fit and ready.

He looks tidy at times, good on the ball and looks to get forward well. Just defensively he looks a bit of a liability

He might get better when we sort the CBs out - ie either Williams or O Connor back in

If Wing and Fraiser had switched roles back and forth every now and then, I reckon that would have given them something else to think about.

Noel touched on this on BBCRB after the match. He said that when Wing is playing further forward he is often being man marked and can’t get on the ball as much. Idea of dropping deep then free’s up a full back to go into midfield. Saw that a bit today with Matty Jacob.
This is the thing I'm amazed all these people calling for Wing to be further forward don't get.

Deeper he gets time and space. He scored today, because he was our deep midfielder, ghosting in to a danger area unnoticed. If he was playing further forward, he wouldn't have been free and in space that far out to pick up and shoot. Someone would be on him. Deeper, he's being pressed by one player, in a more open part of the pitch, he can look forward, but he's also always got safe options backwards and sideways if it isn't on and he's sharp enough to be able to choose his option.

Further forward, everything's tighter, he'll have more players near him able to get closer and close his passing lines out. Yes, he's trying the hollywood ball a bit much, and it's not coming off as well as last season. But push him forward, and that 60 yard diagonal is no longer an option for him. And no one else in the team can do it nearly as well.

The midfield, less so today admittedly, is one of the better functioning parts of the team right now. We have the pieces to have a very good midfield, to a similar standard of last year. Wing deep, Savage up and down, and then Doyle or Elliott showing for the pass, turning their man, finding some space between the lines and making something happen.

The forward line is struggling, but then that's not a surprise with the number of changes to the squad and XI we've had. Kelvin switching between two different positions and getting dropped. O'Mahoney getting dropped. Lane getting injured. Kyerewaa switching from left to right. Camara in and out.

And in defence, we dropped our best performing defender for a promising teenager who had one good cup game against Pompey reserves. Our big defensive leader is injured, and our experiences specialist LB looks like a mistake.

Hunt is showing his inexperience with the tinkering. IMO he saw we'd lost the first two games and got a cup win, and threw the plan out to try to match that, when it was the wrong thing to do. But injuries to Lane, Dorsett and O'Connor certainly aren't helping. He also needs to get them to cut loose a bit more. Take more shots rather than hoping the perfect opportunity will arise, work the keeper a bit, give the defence something else to think about.

We need to not panic, keep working hard, and our understanding will grow if we keep some consistency, a bit of a rub of he green will come up sooner or later and we'll have a good run. But constantly reacting and changing will just prolong the problem and the bad results.

Playing Wing at the back has two main outcomes. A weak and slow midfield core that fails to protect the defence and a preponderance of ineffective long balls.

I’d rather Wing had less time but be slightly more effective further up.

Yeah, agree with this. He was trying to ping passes over the top and into Kelvin, but he's not the best at holding the ball up. Mixing it up with balls into the channels for him or the wingers to chase might have been a better ploy. It was all very one dimensional.

Wing got caught on the ball a couple of times as well, which is unlike him.

I agree with Ian, playing Wing deeper gives him more time on the ball, but I don't think we need to play Fraser and Savage ahead of him for protection. One of Savage or Fraser, plus Elliott or Doyle. That would give us more creativity in the middle and make us less reliant on Wing's long balls. It would also open an option for Wing to play a pass into feet in the middle of the pitch. It should make us less predictable and would hopefully suit Kelvin and O'Mahoney a bit better, as they could play on the shoulder more often.

I liked what Kyerewaa did yesterday, he's quick, he's got a very good first touch and wins far more in the air than someone of his height should do. I'd like to see him be more confident in taking on a player though, there were times yesterday where he tried to find a pass, instead of taking on his man or shooting and it all fizzled out.

Garcia doesn't look like a winger to me either, but he's very young and will improve. Ahmed did ok, made a few rookie errors, but to be expected. It was a mistake to drop Abrefa though. Ahmed will get plenty of minutes this season, we don’t need to rush him.

As has been said already, yesterday's result falls squarely on Hunt's shoulders. He made mistakes with the lineup and subs. It does at least show that he's willing to shake things up though, so hopefully he'll reflect on the game and make the correct decisions on Tuesday.

Our midfield is Wing unless unavailable, alongside one of Savage/Fraser and one of Doyle/Elliott. Workrate, cover for the defence but also ball playing ability and guile.

Any game we lose without Elliott or Doyle is on Hunt.

This is the thing I'm amazed all these people calling for Wing to be further forward don't get.

Deeper he gets time and space. He scored today, because he was our deep midfielder, ghosting in to a danger area unnoticed. If he was playing further forward, he wouldn't have been free and in space that far out to pick up and shoot. Someone would be on him. Deeper, he's being pressed by one player, in a more open part of the pitch, he can look forward, but he's also always got safe options backwards and sideways if it isn't on and he's sharp enough to be able to choose his option.

Further forward, everything's tighter, he'll have more players near him able to get closer and close his passing lines out. Yes, he's trying the hollywood ball a bit much, and it's not coming off as well as last season. But push him forward, and that 60 yard diagonal is no longer an option for him. And no one else in the team can do it nearly as well.

The midfield, less so today admittedly, is one of the better functioning parts of the team right now. We have the pieces to have a very good midfield, to a similar standard of last year. Wing deep, Savage up and down, and then Doyle or Elliott showing for the pass, turning their man, finding some space between the lines and making something happen.

The forward line is struggling, but then that's not a surprise with the number of changes to the squad and XI we've had. Kelvin switching between two different positions and getting dropped. O'Mahoney getting dropped. Lane getting injured. Kyerewaa switching from left to right. Camara in and out.

And in defence, we dropped our best performing defender for a promising teenager who had one good cup game against Pompey reserves. Our big defensive leader is injured, and our experiences specialist LB looks like a mistake.

Hunt is showing his inexperience with the tinkering. IMO he saw we'd lost the first two games and got a cup win, and threw the plan out to try to match that, when it was the wrong thing to do. But injuries to Lane, Dorsett and O'Connor certainly aren't helping. He also needs to get them to cut loose a bit more. Take more shots rather than hoping the perfect opportunity will arise, work the keeper a bit, give the defence something else to think about.

We need to not panic, keep working hard, and our understanding will grow if we keep some consistency, a bit of a rub of he green will come up sooner or later and we'll have a good run. But constantly reacting and changing will just prolong the problem and the bad results.

Playing Wing at the back has two main outcomes. A weak and slow midfield core that fails to protect the defence and a preponderance of ineffective long balls.

I’d rather Wing had less time but be slightly more effective further up.

Preponderance. Now that has to be word for the day, Leon

Just touching on the long balls from deep to either a no.9 who can't head a ball or to two wingers who are most unlikely to win any headers.
We have some decent passers of a ball in midfield and interchange of passing between them and a final ball along the ground is surely our best current option and should be our main attacking approach..

What surprises me is that Burns, brought up at Man City ,lumps the ball forward to nowhere-surely he must be under instruction from the manager and it goes against the grain for the player who looks comfortable on the ball?

Although I get where Ian is coming from in his post I do feel that Hound's point that if Wing is being tight-marked that leaves more space for others and Leon's point that if he loses possession further up the pitch it is less damaging.

Wimbledon showed more imagination than us and I felt looked fairly comfortable which is worrying as we probably will face stronger opposition than Lincoln and Wimbledon as the season progresses.
Wonder goals from Wing are something that we now take for granted but we need to do so much more.

Actually checked whoscored stats and to my surprise Kelvin won 8 headers yesterday (some of these might be defensive)

But here’s the second issue - anytime he did win one it went to nobody

It’s just a poor tactic - it’s not even playing percentages, we just gift possesion back

Substitutions:

Does anyone else get the impression that the raft of substitutions on either 65 mins or 75 mins feel mechanically pre-determined rather than responding to the specific game dynamics?

I mean I like to see a change if things aren't working - but recently it seems that as soon as we make the substitutions, we concede and the personel doesn't seem to be responding to actual game dynamics...

It was the first game of the season where I went into it expecting us to win and for us not to even salvage a draw is a worrying sign. I do think Hunt has been let down in this window in that we are 3 weeks into the season and we are still glaringly short in attacking options. We have wasted all of pre-season and somehow we have to get bodies in and hope they hit the ground running. But equally at some stage he has to get a tune out of this group and at the minute it's difficult to identify a style of play.

Until they scored I thought we were the better team and Garcia has to finish that 3 on 2 chance. As for the goals conceded, they were very soft and the second in particular was a bad one to concede. Everyone inside the stadium could see they had a spare man in the D and low and behold he gets a free shot on goal which deflects in. As for the chances we created, we didn't have a shot on target until Wing's goal and we can't keep relying on him to nail goals from distance.

Jacob looks like a Blue Peter badge winner, miles off the pace.

We have the following attacking options, we’re not short

O Mahony, Lane, Kyeweraa, Kelvin, Camara, Garcia, Osho, Okine Peters, Doyle arguably as well

All of those signed or re-signed under Hunt as manager. If they’re not good enough (arguably not) then why did we sign them?

I’d like to know what is the game plan to get them to score a goal? Are we expecting them to run onto a through ball, head in a cross, convert a cut back? Because there seems to clear plan to me. Just throwing more bodies at it won’t help

Doyle was in the top 25 League One goalscorers last season, and hit double figures, so he’s definitely an attacking threat.

Yes indeed

Would also note of those 9 only Osho and Okine Peters haven’t had at least one solid season of league football behind them and only Osho could be really be considered a u21 player - the others are all signed for the first team

The game plan is Peplite. The god awful inverted 4 3 3 that condenses play into an overloaded centre, where the technical ability of your players is supposed to create ‘moments’. The only other option is to work the ball to the wide players who will cut in on their natural side to get a shot away. The problem is, everyone knows this and how to stop it. The managers who use it, will blame and change the players when it fails. I was asked what I thought of O’Mahony. The answer is, I have no idea what he is like as a professional footballer, let alone a striker. He has nothing to work with. He has to play with his back to goal and seems to have a first touch like pinging a ball off a bicycle frame. Could go anywhere. Not his fault. His best two opportunities have come from charging down a goalkeeper in four games.

Noel is set on Peplite, like Seles was. It is just that he doesn’t have the players for it or the bravery to change it. He keeps smashing his head off the wall until the wall gives out. It has become so ingrained now, that clubs are unable to change or adapt. Academy coaching and recruitment is based on the Peplite plan. No one produces strikers or wingers anymore. It is like they have died out. We live in a football world where our wingers are looking to work the ball to the keeper, so we can invite a press we cannot beat, because it doesn’t come. Yay!

I actually thought he looked ok going forward, cutting into midfield with a bit of pace.

The game plan is Peplite. The god awful inverted 4 3 3 that condenses play into an overloaded centre, where the technical ability of your players is supposed to create ‘moments’. The only other option is to work the ball to the wide players who will cut in on their natural side to get a shot away. The problem is, everyone knows this and how to stop it. The managers who use it, will blame and change the players when it fails. I was asked what I thought of O’Mahony. The answer is, I have no idea what he is like as a professional footballer, let alone a striker. He has nothing to work with. He has to play with his back to goal and seems to have a first touch like pinging a ball off a bicycle frame. Could go anywhere. Not his fault. His best two opportunities have come from charging down a goalkeeper in four games.

Noel is set on Peplite, like Seles was. It is just that he doesn’t have the players for it or the bravery to change it. He keeps smashing his head off the wall until the wall gives out. It has become so ingrained now, that clubs are unable to change or adapt. Academy coaching and recruitment is based on the Peplite plan. No one produces strikers or wingers anymore. It is like they have died out. We live in a football world where our wingers are looking to work the ball to the keeper, so we can invite a press we cannot beat, because it doesn’t come. Yay!

Hate all this modern technical trendy poncing about that seems to dominate tactics these days. Might well work if you’re Liverpool or City but is otherwise dreary frustrating cr@p when sides lower in the pyramid have a go. Inverted wingers and false 9s are just tw@t terms for rubbish stuff.

Just go back to basic simple stuff of 4-4-2 with good old fashioned scary wingers with pace that only need to beat one player rather than trying to beat 3 or 4 players several times and full backs who actually defend rather than being in the middle of the pitch as the ball sails past them.

This is the thing I'm amazed all these people calling for Wing to be further forward don't get.

Deeper he gets time and space. He scored today, because he was our deep midfielder, ghosting in to a danger area unnoticed. If he was playing further forward, he wouldn't have been free and in space that far out to pick up and shoot. Someone would be on him. Deeper, he's being pressed by one player, in a more open part of the pitch, he can look forward, but he's also always got safe options backwards and sideways if it isn't on and he's sharp enough to be able to choose his option.

Further forward, everything's tighter, he'll have more players near him able to get closer and close his passing lines out. Yes, he's trying the hollywood ball a bit much, and it's not coming off as well as last season. But push him forward, and that 60 yard diagonal is no longer an option for him. And no one else in the team can do it nearly as well.

The midfield, less so today admittedly, is one of the better functioning parts of the team right now. We have the pieces to have a very good midfield, to a similar standard of last year. Wing deep, Savage up and down, and then Doyle or Elliott showing for the pass, turning their man, finding some space between the lines and making something happen.

The forward line is struggling, but then that's not a surprise with the number of changes to the squad and XI we've had. Kelvin switching between two different positions and getting dropped. O'Mahoney getting dropped. Lane getting injured. Kyerewaa switching from left to right. Camara in and out.

And in defence, we dropped our best performing defender for a promising teenager who had one good cup game against Pompey reserves. Our big defensive leader is injured, and our experiences specialist LB looks like a mistake.

Hunt is showing his inexperience with the tinkering. IMO he saw we'd lost the first two games and got a cup win, and threw the plan out to try to match that, when it was the wrong thing to do. But injuries to Lane, Dorsett and O'Connor certainly aren't helping. He also needs to get them to cut loose a bit more. Take more shots rather than hoping the perfect opportunity will arise, work the keeper a bit, give the defence something else to think about.

We need to not panic, keep working hard, and our understanding will grow if we keep some consistency, a bit of a rub of he green will come up sooner or later and we'll have a good run. But constantly reacting and changing will just prolong the problem and the bad results.

Playing Wing at the back has two main outcomes. A weak and slow midfield core that fails to protect the defence and a preponderance of ineffective long balls.

I’d rather Wing had less time but be slightly more effective further up.
Worked well enough last season. I don’t think he will be as effective, that's the point.

Wing further forwards means Fraser deep. Plus Savage. That’s not enough creativity. We need to be adding Elliott or Doyle. Take out Savage and you lose endless energy and running and it's all a bit slow.

Playing Wing at the back has two main outcomes. A weak and slow midfield core that fails to protect the defence and a preponderance of ineffective long balls.

I’d rather Wing had less time but be slightly more effective further up.
Worked well enough last season. I don’t think he will be as effective, that's the point.

Wing further forwards means Fraser deep. Plus Savage. That’s not enough creativity. We need to be adding Elliott or Doyle. Take out Savage and you lose endless energy and running and it's all a bit slow.
We had a similar problems last season. Wing was walked through on a number of occasions. You could argue that our weakness through the middle was partially responsible for us not making the playoffs.

And the aimless long balls wasted so much possession to teams with large centre backs who ate it up every time.

We need to play the best players in their best positions but we also need to play the team and formation that suits. And that trumps everything.

I guess Hunt needs to work out what that is pretty quick. And he needs to learn from his mistakes

Our best player sat on the bench for 90 mins again. It's gonna be a "second ball game" if none of your midfielders have an ounce of ball carrying composure.

Just before their second goal Noel was about to make some changes. The groan from the West stand when everyone realised he was calling Camara over, not Elliot was probably the highlight of the day.